In vilifying Russian swimmer Yulia Efimova, Americans are splashing murky waters
Posted by Michelle Moquin on August 15th, 2016
Good Monday morning!
There is so much to blog about when it comes to the Olympics. I made a brief comment about this controversial topic a few days ago. I heard the “booing” toward Yulia Efimova, coming from the audience as she and our American Olympic swimmer Lilly King went head to head for the gold.
The “booing” saddened me because as we all know there are always two sides to a story. So I did a little research as I think it is only fair to bring up the other side. This write caught my eye.
From The Wash Po:
In vilifying Russian swimmer Yulia Efimova, Americans are splashing murky waters
Russian swimmer Yulia Efimova is at the center of Russia’s doping scandal. Here’s what you need to know about her. (Monica Akhtar/The Washington Post)
RIO DE JANEIRO — Feels good, doesn’t it, to slap water in the face of the rest of the world and go all jingoist? Lilly King kept America strong and pure when she sent a blast of chlorine into the eyes of that Russian criminal mastermind Yulia Efimova and prevented her from melting the earth’s core. Or something like that, right? But there is a disquieting aspect to the narrative going here at the Olympics. It’s not a moment of perfect American moral clarity.
King, 19, is a swaggeringly great swimmer, but the rivalry between her and 24-year-old Efimova in the breaststroke is hardly a simple matter of a clean swimmer prevailing over “drug cheating,” as King put it. The facts of Efimova’s case aren’t nearly so clear cut despite the self-righteous Cold War shunning of her. It’s worth looking a little more closely at the human face of Efimova and maybe even standing in her place for a minute. As she suggested tearfully the other night, “You can just try and understand me, like if you switch you and I.”
[‘I’m not this sweet little girl’: Lilly King, doping sheriff, won’t back down]
For starters, Efimova doesn’t live in Russia; she lives in Los Angeles, where she has trained with Southern Cal Coach Dave Salo since she was 19. He says via email, “She is a sweet kid and not the monster she is being branded.” She was born in the war-torn Chechen capital of Grozny and raised in the Russian swim-club system in Volgodonsk, but in 2011, her coaches feared she was wearied by the grind of the Russian program, so they asked Salo to take her on.
Efimova has two offenses for performance-enhancing on her record, and let’s take a closer look at them. One day in 2013 she went to a local GNC in L.A. and bought a nutritional supplement. Her English was poor, and she didn’t check the contents, which included the banned hormone DHEA. Efimova’s offense was deemed unintentional, and the normal two-year suspension was reduced to 16 months.
No American would do such a thing, right? Actually, as NBC correspondent Alan Abrahamson has pointed out, Efimova’s case was very similar to that of Jessica Hardy, banned for ingesting a tainted supplement in 2008 only to win two medals at London 2012. No one splashed water in Hardy’s face or refused to shake her hand.
Salo has coached American champions from Amanda Beard and Rebecca Soni to Aaron Peirsol and Jason Lezak, and he estimates that “90 percent plus” of all international athletes consume some sort of supplement, though he tries to discourage it.
“I lost the battle a long time ago with regards to athletes believing that they need something” for recovery, etc., he said.
Efimova is deemed a chronic cheat here mainly because of her second offense: testing positive for the heart medication meldonium in the midst of the crisis over the exposure of state-sponsored doping in Russia. Meldonium was in broad use by Eastern European athletes legally until WADA prohibited it in January 2016. This spring, WADA declined to ban more than 200 athletes who tested positive for meldonium after January, including Efimova, because it’s unclear how long it takes to clear the system. It’s quite possible that she obeyed the WADA ban but the medication remained in her system anyhow.
Efimova tried to explain these circumstances in her Olympic post-race news conference as King refused to look at her. Here was Efimova’s account of herself, and you can accept it or not.
“I have once when I made mistakes, and I have been banned for 16 months,” she said. “For second time, it’s not my mistakes. Like, I don’t know why actually I need to explain everybody or not. . . . Like if WADA say, like, tomorrow, stop like yogurt or nicotine or, I don’t know, protein, that every athlete use, and they say tomorrow now it’s on banned list. And you stop. But this is stay [in] your body like six months, and doping control is coming, like, after two months, tested you, and you’re positive. This is your fault?”
Salo has qualms about the inclusion in Rio of Efimova and other Russian swimmers who tested positive and has even indefinitely suspended all international swimmers from his Trojan program. But he does not believe in demonizing them for the systemic practices they were reared with in their federations.
“They are unsuspecting pawns in government or federation directives,” he said. “Yulia is a nice woman with too much talent to need performance enhancing supplementation.”
He believes she took meldonium on the advice of her doctor and observes that Eastern Europeans believe heavy training is bad for the system.
“Apparently most of Eastern European athletes think they have to protect their hearts because training is contraindicated,” he said.
Regardless of what anyone thinks of Efimova, it’s hard to see how the American censoriousness against her — or any individual athlete — is a solution to state-sponsored doping. And it’s just begging for anti-American backlash. King is just 19, and you would never want to curb her outspokenness or competitiveness. But it’s worth suggesting to her that a lot of beloved American athletes take supplements and use medical assistance not on the banned list. It’s also worth suggesting that she’s never walked a mile in the shoes of someone born in Grozny in 1992.
“Usually in the Olympic Games, all wars stopping,” Efimova said.
Just before Efimova left Los Angeles for Rio, she saw Salo. Her status had been in question for days and her training in chaos as the International Olympic Committee debated and defaulted on the status of Russian athletes.
“At the last minute they said she would be swimming,” Salo says. “I told her it was going to be hard and that she would not be well received. So be prepared for the hardest racing of her life.”
It’s safe to say the racing was not the hard part.
♀ 🏊🏼♀
Readers: What are your thoughts?
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As usual, see you tomorrow.
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August 15th, 2016 at 7:20 pm
Thank you for this article Michelle, I am from Омск. Here we know that Yulia Efimova is good girl.
August 15th, 2016 at 7:26 pm
When I see the halfwit fool Trump as the person one side chose to represent its challenge for the Presidency of the United States of America, I understand that the only qualification needed to be president of your country is to be a white male. Anyone else has to have some qualifications but not your white males.
If it were not for your nuclear weapons, and the occasional election of really qualified POTUS, you would be just another third world country.
August 15th, 2016 at 7:28 pm
Michelle my girlfriend Isra told me to read your blog. I like this article. You try to be fair. To bad not most americans are like you.
August 15th, 2016 at 7:34 pm
The russians cheat at every international meet, why should the Olympics be any different. Meldonium is used by athletes to enhance exercise performance and improve recovery afterwards.
Why not just compete fairly like everyone else? Just because it wasn’t banned doesn’t take away the fact that they were using a drug to get the edge on other athletes who weren’t.
August 15th, 2016 at 7:41 pm
Michelle, I’m sick of my friends who read this blog calling me and asking why you don’t print balance articles about violence against the police.
Here’s why: The Justice Department found that in Baltimore, police routinely stop people on the street without reasonable suspicion, conduct physical searches that lack adequate grounds and exceed legal limits,
The usual assumption is that cops can be trusted to know who’s a bad guy and who’s not. But of the more than 300,000 pedestrian stops that occurred over a 5 1/2-year span, the report notes, only 3.7 percent 11,100 led to an arrest or citation — and many of those were later dropped.
August 15th, 2016 at 7:49 pm
America is a country in which its whites have gotten away with subjugating their minorities for so long that they now think it is a right.
They attempt to use that philosophy when they are dealing with other countries in which the color of the citizens isn’t white. That is why until Obama was elected America was revered as hypocrites who would use whatever weight they had to help whatever party that served their economic interest. America under white men didn’t care if the strong man was good for their country or not. All they cared about was profit that could be made from that person’s position of power.
August 15th, 2016 at 8:00 pm
Clyde#5, that was an interesting read. Here is one of my favorite comments because it says so much about police mentality, and their willingness to lie.
———————————
In 1978, I was in the Los Angeles Sheriff Department training room learning to be a sheriff officer for a new job at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art.
The instructor stood in front of the class, held a 38 pistol in hand and said “Always shoot to kill, never to stop. However if anyone asks, You always say you were trying to stop the person and FEARED for your life.”
Kind of a common answer by police everywhere in USA now days, and of course the LASD is the most respected police force in USA. Training other police forces on “their tactics” every year.
Is it any wonder that so much military action is happening in a nation that is pushing TPP, TTIP, TISA ISDP and other trade deals that give USA Corporations the right to pollute, dehumanize populations, and pay slave wages every where on the planet?
I quit the LACMA a few years later, the powerful and corrupt actions were too much for my gut… ulcers, and consciousness of self, I had more respect for myself.
1993, USA court system stated I had no right to prosecute the mother of my child with child abuse, in 2004 that same court system enforced those beliefs with breaking my arm and locking me up for 30 days WITHOUT ACCESS to any medical attention, other than on about day 27.
My cellmates revolted and I got x-rays of my shoulder. The x-ray tech came in a couple minutes after the x-rays were taken and using the same “You are a Liar” statement denied I had an injury. Film takes several minutes to process and an x-ray takes 20–30 minutes to look over by a Radiologist. I knew she lied and the sheriff just put me in jail to finish my 30 days.
12 years later I still have those injuries and by ANY LAWS I know of what was done was TORTURE. I never even received an aspirin during those 30 days. Even the Geneva Convention says that is Torture. USA has removed my human rights simply because I wanted to be a good father.
I was entering the courthouse “as Lawyer” for a case, that morning, to place charges on 2 judges for child abuse & other illegal action from the bench.
I was stopped and jumped on by 4 large sheriff officers. Slammed to a marble floor, impact is estimated @ 1000lbs+ at a speed of 10mph. I weighted 170lbs. Any one want to hit their car that hard and see if anything is damaged??
In 2005, those 2 same judges placed felony charges on me for saying I would put them in jail. Protection of the failed system by violence again.
In 2003, I entered court documents in the USA Supreme Court, on the opening page it stated “ON GOING CHILD ABUSE”, by the laws of that day and backing to 1992 when I was first trying get protection for my 1 yr old child, the USA Supreme Court had 72 hours to end the abuse and put the case on a court calendar, REGARD OF THE court’s belief it is ABOVE THE LAWS OF THE LAND.
The USA Supreme Court has Felony charges, and just as you would NOT try a Nazi in a court of his choice, by jury selected by him, by rules written by him, I am not going to use a USA or it’s supporters courts. I will try the USA government, in a court SELECTED BY ME.
=======================
I feel for this gentleman, but they are the ones that smile and allow the racist system to terrorize the OTWs in America. It is only when that system turns on them that they scream foul.
August 15th, 2016 at 8:01 pm
The Milwaukee police should turn shotguns on those rabid dogs and cut them down and bury them in a mass grave marked “Dead Rabid Dogs”. Black Lives Matter are disgusting dirt bags
August 15th, 2016 at 8:03 pm
The sick and twisted ghetto liberal media Never condemns NEGROES acts of violence against , anyone . Nor that they have a propensity for raping white women . As well as not taking responsibility for their own , children .
August 15th, 2016 at 8:06 pm
We don’t believe the police anymore, they have to prove they’re telling the truth and they can’t as they keep breaking, losing, or saying they forgot to turn their cameras on….
The cop claims the boy turned around holding a gun but did he threaten the cop? Did he really turn around or was the boy shot in the back? I don’t trust coroners that are hired by the same city that hire the cops, the coroner has motive and the opportunity to lie.
Show us the video because more often than not, the officer is lying! No wonder people are upset! Fix the police so people can respect the job…Until then we’ll believe cops are corrupt
August 15th, 2016 at 8:10 pm
Bikendi#2, you are not alone in your opinion. Even european countries are showing disbelief. They can hardly believe that the whites in America are basically still trying to rule their minorities as they did a few decades ago.
The selection of Trump as their presidential choice shows that they have learned nothing about why they are scorned by most non white countries on this planet.
August 15th, 2016 at 8:13 pm
Did you hear Mr. Trump say that the Bush administration practically committed a war crime by attacking Iraq. He said that the war against Iraq that caused hundreds of dead american soldiers and tens of thousands of injures also “blew away” thousand of iraqis.
Why haven’t the democrats had the courage to say just that? Now perhaps the international community will move to charge Bush and Cheney with war crimes.
August 15th, 2016 at 8:19 pm
When it comes to white america they have control of the media, right and left.
I particularly like their right slant. Hannity, Huckabee & Trump, what a cocktail!
August 15th, 2016 at 8:21 pm
If you only get your news from FOX you’re not getting the news!
August 15th, 2016 at 8:30 pm
Michelle, I am member of Russian GirlZ. We love you. Thanks for giving fair showing to our side.
August 15th, 2016 at 8:38 pm
I am from Челябинск, Chelyabinsk Oblast. On February 15, 2013 a space ship crashed in the Ural Mountains near our city. Over a thousand people were injured.
We were told that we didn’t see what we saw. We were told that it was just a meteor shower. I would like to ask Howie his opinion.
August 15th, 2016 at 8:42 pm
America has long supported racist colonialists countries like the old South Africa. They were allowed to send white only athletes to compete in the Olympic games from a black enslaved country.
Yet, white america mounts its self-righteous horse to complain about russian athletes. Clean your own fucking racist pig sty before you deign to lecture Russia.
August 15th, 2016 at 8:53 pm
I am proudly from Санкт-Петербург, Saint Petersburg. Racist, hypocritical america has no moral or righteous footing to condemn Russia.
White men in america think they own everyone else in America. They cheat, lie, and revel in their white privilege status. The use their police force to terrorize and murder those that resist their tyranny.
White males have reduced America to a country whose political office holders are beholden to and owned by the highest bidder.
No one is paying any real heed to your hypocritical critique of Russia or any other country. Clean the cesspool you have created before you lecture others.
August 15th, 2016 at 8:59 pm
I live in Kazan, Russia. I do not like the fact that Putin has forced our athletes to dope up to compete. However, I do not think that Yulia Efimova’s action has risen to that leve.
Therefore I thank you Michelle for publishing an article that shows both sides of the story.
Спасибо Мишель за справедливость и беспокойство за факты.
Дмитрий
August 15th, 2016 at 9:09 pm
Tough topic. On the one hand, it’s hard to blame anyone in King’s shoes, assuming she isn’t doing them herself. On the other, who knows exactly how much these Russian athletes are “encouraged” to use PEDs.
I think King’s beef should probably be more with the Russian government than the athletes themselves. We need to remember that things are different over there. Sometimes saying “no” isn’t really an option.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:13 pm
Aleksei#17, I would suggest the huge government-sponsored drug program Russia has been running does indicate that many of their athletes have little choice. That, and the general way their government functions.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:13 pm
I love when cheaters get caught and then get pissed when other peopletalk about it. If you don’t want them to talk don’t cheat!
August 15th, 2016 at 9:13 pm
The evidence would say she is not a cheater. She is an athlete who made a mistake. Her mistake. Her responsibility.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:14 pm
Maybe this butch cheater should just move along and stop bringing attention to herself. I would say all King needs to learn is don’t be a doper ever and realize the cameras are always on in the Olympics.
King didn’t bring this up, she was caught on camera doing what move people would do to a cocky, arrogant cheater. Then the media took hold and it became what it became.
King is not the one in the wrong, she pointed out what is wrong…every cheater in the Olympics who were allowed to compete.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:15 pm
What Efimova should do is take some accountability. How can she possibly absolve herself from blame for taking PEDs and then point a finger at King for talking about it?
If I was a clean, world-class athlete who put in the time and the work and made the sacrifices to be great, but kept losing to cheaters, you better believe I’d call them out on it.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:16 pm
It’s funny this all started when Efimova wagged her finger like she was number one, and then after that in the waiting room, King did it to the screen….and all King said post-winning the gold, was she is happy she can prove to the world that clean racers can win….and all in all, these olympics have been a joke in sportsmanship, not just by the USA, not just by the Russians, but by everyone….
August 15th, 2016 at 9:17 pm
She trains in the US, the supplement she was suspended for she bought at GNC in L.A. (which you wouldn’t do if trying to hide it) and was deemed unintentional.
Meldonium was her second and this was legal until suddenly it wasn’t, and a whole segment of the globe was taking it as a supplement. She lives and trains in the US since before the London Olympics.
This is hardly the face of systematic Russian doping and it’s unfair to label her as such, while meanwhile cheering for Justin Gatlin who was suspended 4 YEARS for extremely intentional testosterone doping. You can’t have it both ways.
I was cheering for King to win, but her comments were out of line with the facts of this particular swimmer.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:20 pm
Tom#25, she has claimed responsibility for her actions. She took a supplement that had banned substances in it, unknowingly for her first offense. She was able to prove that beyond doubt, hence her first suspension was shortened.
#2, the second offense was for taking a substance, meldonium, that was not banned until Jan 2016. She stopped taking it then. No one knows exactly how long it stays in the system, she tested pos in Mar, and THAT is why her second “infraction” was thrown out.
WADA, IAAF and the IOC all said she was good to compete. There are currently still studies being done to find out this information.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:21 pm
Tom#25, perhaps your point about personal attacks gets missed by your personal attacks.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:22 pm
Richard#28, her first ban was for steroids not some harmless supplement like you are pretending. Her second ban was for a drug that got Sharapova 2 years because it has been banned in every sport.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:23 pm
Richard#28 I don’t agree that she “proved” it. If she proved it they would have dropped the suspension. But the ingredients label sasid DHEA on the bottle! She claimed she was living in a foreign country and struggled with English (even though she has been here since she was 8yrs old).
August 15th, 2016 at 9:24 pm
Ryan#26, You must have missed a lot of the other races going on this week, because there was plenty of just the opposite.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:27 pm
I am not Ryan#27. This Ryan is a huge Hope Solo fan.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:28 pm
Ryan#27, Wasn’t Melodonium the one that Sharapova took that got her banned from tennis?
August 15th, 2016 at 9:29 pm
Tom#25 It is downright hilarious that you post such an immature attack on someone and then in the next breath call them immature. Cheater got busted, period.
There was proof Russia was state sponsoring doping to give it’s athletes an advantage. You’re like the Hillary supporters preaching tolerance while spitting on someone for being a Trump supporter.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:30 pm
John#31 I don’t think they drop suspensions even if it was an accident. You are responsible for what goes in your body. It can be mitigated to some degree.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:32 pm
Anonymous#35, Try making up a name next time. You have no idea who I am or where I stand regarding poltics. But it is pretty clear where you stand.
Try reading again and then we can discuss whether or not you noticed that all I went after him for calling the woman butch without any back up for it. Maybe you can dig in theri and find where I defended her use of PEDs.
You will need to dig very hard to find what doesn’t exist. Now run along little guy.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:34 pm
I agree with you, David#30. Beyond the fact that she cheated I think her actions here are complete B.S. She’s blaming this ‘war’ on King and claiming that it’s because of Kings’s youthful imprudence.
That’s a load of crap, any ‘war’ is a direct result of clean athletes being sick of competing against dirty athletes. The problem is the veteran taking PEDs, not the newcomer talking about it.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:35 pm
David#30 you are wrong. She was able to show recipts and other evidence that supported her story that the first test was failed due to an over the counter supplement from GNC that contained small amounts of a banned substance.
While she should of been more aware, she was not exactly shooting up stereroids. For her secnd ban the substance was not on the banned list at the time she took it, hence they recinded the suspension.
Athletes take suplements and considering how fluid the anti-doping rules are it is understandable that athletes will have a hard time keeping up.
Also, its possible to fail one of these tests simply by eating beef form Mexico. Seriously, they use anabolic stereroids in their cattle. These athletes have to be hyper aware and sometimes people slip up.
She served a 16 month ban for the first, thats fair considering all signs show that her doping was unintentional.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:36 pm
Tom#38 you are not and never will be a world -class anything. Or are you? Or were you just talking hypothetically?
August 15th, 2016 at 9:37 pm
Tom#38, lets just get the taxpayers from having to pay for any of it. what do the taxpayers get for having elite athletes trained, etc and having adults in the business get rich?
Taxpayer money should be used to keep our country safe and for the health and safety of our citizens. quit forcing the taxpayers to pay for games and collegiate sports just so gamblers have something to bet on and make coaches and administrators rich.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:38 pm
Apparently Sam#40, is not a world class reader. The word “if” creates something called a conditional clause. I said that “if” I was a clean, world-class athlete I would call out cheaters.
The implication being that I don’t blame King for doing the same. Understand? Here’s another one: If Sam#40, understood basic English he wouldn’t have made such a moronic post.
August 15th, 2016 at 9:42 pm
Richard@28, The first banned was a freaking steroid.. not a masking agent, crack, coke, or even a vitaman… this PE’s last in the body for a few years and you still benift.
You are correct in that the 2nd was for meldonium, which like Maria Sharopva was tested as positive after the ban took place.. & Maria was not playing in Rio.
And as you say, are not enough studies to show how long it last in system.
Two problems I have with that.
She says it is still in her system.. she is then getting the benifits from it now in Rio…while others are not.. and therefore they are at a disadvantage.
Another, say that when studies are complete, that they show it is only in the body for a month or 2. Not 3 months later when she tested positive after the ban took place.
If this happens then she lied and took it afterwords and cheated.. yes, they will DQ her in any race and medals may change hand.. but some swimmer was robbed of that chance to compete in her place(heats, semis, finals.. and also some teams when she was part of most of the Russian relay teams).
But ,the point is either way she is not clean.. competed while its still in her system(cheating), or lying and took after banned and still cheated.
August 16th, 2016 at 6:52 am
I know this is off the subject matter but I like this one. Trump is more full of crap than a septic tank at a clinic for colon cleansing…
August 16th, 2016 at 6:55 am
The racists supporting this guy, supported Romney last time, nothing has changed…
August 16th, 2016 at 6:56 am
Kelly In fairness, I know some very reasonable people who supported Romney.
August 16th, 2016 at 6:57 am
Thomas#46, What scares me is Trump makes Romney look like a saint.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:02 am
Trump is the most dishonest and disloyal person to ever ran for office, with the exception of Texas of course.
There will be a few states which will give their majority of votes to Trump in November, and each should be entered into the Hall of Shame. It certainly will leave an indelible stain on that state’s history.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:03 am
Sandra#47, Romney is A Latter Day Saint.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:04 am
Arkansas will go for Trump.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:04 am
Gary#49, Hey partner, don’t mess with Texas! Lol
August 16th, 2016 at 7:05 am
Gary#49, For Texans, this will a test between their courage to do the right thing versus voting for Trump and explaining to their children and grandkids how gullible & blind you were by voting for Trump.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:06 am
Trump uses a Karl Rove tactic:Accuse your enemies of what you have actually done yourself. Then create a muddy water scenario where your lie is given equal weight to the truth. THere is no such thing as alternate truth.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:07 am
I’ve been saying all along: all these theories of crimes are theories about Hillary & Obama. But not Trump. I would bet all these accusations he tosses out– HE ACTUALLY DID!
He bribes
He hides $ over seas
He pays to play
Has deals with Russia
He was for it before he was against it and didn’t say it at all
He claims bankruptcy to NOT pay middle class workers
He uses eminent domain – to throw out senior citizens
He uses Veterans as a platform while shunning them every chance he gets.
When was Donald out in public at a meet & greet— not at one of his rally’s.
Does he pay any taxes? Ok– what’s his rate? Plus how much pollution are his daily jaunts harming the planet?
August 16th, 2016 at 7:09 am
I would be nervous if I were Hilary Clinton. I live in Indian River County and I’m doing voter registration…..scary how many republicans we’re signing up. I leave depressed every day.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:11 am
Bruce#53, trump and his followers lie without pause. How about the one where Katrina Pierson said that reporters beat up drump supporters.
Honestly, you can’t make this stuff up! As my brothers used to say, “It’s stranger than truth!”
August 16th, 2016 at 7:12 am
Maria#55, Hey, don’t stress….its a free country and you’re doing important work.
It’ll all be worth it in November.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:14 am
Maria#55, Don’t let it get you down too much. Indian river voted about two to one for McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012 and Obama still carried Florida.
Thank God for the overwhelmingly democratic Miami/ Dade and Broward Counties where the population far exceeds Indian River (by more than 10 to 1).
August 16th, 2016 at 7:15 am
Maria,#55, stay strong my family is 50/50. Can’t stand it. But then again half of them are white men.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:16 am
Maria#55, You know what they say about Florida, the farther North you go in Florida, the farther South you are.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:17 am
Anon#56, SOMEBODY is making this stuff up ….
August 16th, 2016 at 7:18 am
Maria#55, They register as Republican, but in the privacy of the voting booth, they vote…. ? It is Florida where the only safe place for Democrats is Volusia County after all.
I know several registered Republicans that will be voting HRC. Very long way for me to say, Don’t be discouraged.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:19 am
Elliott#61, Oh no, they wouldn’t do that, would they? Aww come on, that’s beyond the pale. Make up stuff?
That would not be a good thing to do. Might spoil his chance at the office to which he so despartely desires. Elliott, you have to be…Or not
August 16th, 2016 at 7:25 am
Trump’s latest lies are designed to draw attention from Manafort’s cash payments from Russians.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/15/us/politics/paul-manafort-ukraine-donald-trump.html?_r=0
….Handwritten ledgers show $12.7 million in undisclosed cash payments designated for Mr. Manafort from Mr. Yanukovych’s pro-Russian political party from 2007 to 2012, according to Ukraine’s newly formed National Anti-Corruption Bureau. Investigators assert that the disbursements were part of an illegal off-the-books system whose recipients also included election officials…..
August 16th, 2016 at 7:27 am
Why hasn’t the FBI passed this information bout Manafort on to prosecutors? It’s OK for the FBI to go after Clinton, but not Trump’s campaign chairman?
I sense partisan politics by the head of the FBI.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:28 am
Manafort needs to come clean about all of his dealings in Russia and if he doesn’t then he should resign. This is a serious and relevant political issue in light of the current tensions between the US and Russia and Mr. Manafort’s role as a lead advisor to Trump.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:30 am
So let me see if I get this right: We have a nominee for the presidency of the United States who represents a major political party in the United States and who has encouraged Vladimir Putin, a despot by any definition, to hack the email system of the former U.S. secretary of state and who has also expressed public adoration for Putin.
And this candidate for the presidency has a campaign manager whose most prominent previous clients were two foreign dictators, one of them a Putin puppet.
Wow. Is anyone else reading this and wondering, as I am, how scary this is? Especially when you consider that Donald Trump couldn’t find Russia on a map with a fluorescent arrow pointing to it and probably had no idea who Vladimir Putin was six months ago?
August 16th, 2016 at 7:32 am
Trump campaign manager Manafort has close links to Putin through his work with Viktor Yanukovych, ousted Ukrainian leader who fled to Russia.
Trump decides to spout anti NATO rhetoric which is music to Putin’s ears. We get DNC emails exposed through Russian hackers and released just as the Dem convention is starting to deliberately stoke the fires of internal Dem squabbles. Connect the dots people.
If this were anyone but the republican nominee, it would be considered treacherous stuff.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:33 am
This is starting to get downright scary. I must wonder what “words of wisdom” Mr. Manafort is passing on to Donald Trump regarding Russia and Ukraine.
Whose side is Mr. Manafort on? I’d think just being an advisor to Mr. Yanukovych would disqualify Mr. Manafort from being involved in a presidential campaign. And yet he’s Donald Trump’s Campaign Chairman and Chief Strategist.
And Donald Trump says he knows how to choose the best people. Yikes!
August 16th, 2016 at 7:34 am
Several people mentioned NY banks and realtors want nothing to do with him, so to keep the wolf from the door, I’d guess, Russian money is what keeps Donald afloat.
I am suspicious he is not worth anything like what he says he is (and that would be nothing new).
August 16th, 2016 at 7:35 am
This is how Mr. Trump populates his inner circle, drawing from family first, then loyal operatives and then and only then, experienced political insiders.
But even the insiders must bring something extra to the table. Not foreign policy wisdom but an edge for deal making where principles enhance their own wealth, first and foremost. And where better than Russia to execute such covert foreign policy?
This is serious stuff and Mr. Trump, his surrogates and some Republicans are wedded to this activity. Trump is bringing the GOP to depths that exceed even their own comfort levels, and that’s saying something.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:38 am
Wow! If this isn’t investigated, and investigated, and investigated some more, then we’ll all know that Hillary Clinton has been held to a completely different standard then anyone else.
If the press can be all over her emails, they should be knee deep into checking the connection between Manafort and the Soviet Union.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:40 am
Thanks Melly#64 for the link. Great investigative reporting by all. Corey Lewandowski is looking better and that’s not good.
In this bizarre campaign, we vote for two people with excruciatingly low favorability ratings. Neither has high trust ratings, and this exposé of Mr. Manafort merely adds to the distrust.
But not only that, Donald Trump is the nominee because of voters’ distaste of “the establishment”. Paul Manafort’s questionable activities counter their idealistic vote because his actions look like obscured, insider financial deals.
If we mistrust Hillary’s server decision as being unethically related to the Clinton Foundation, we now have another unsavory story added to the Trump campaign.
The good side to this is that it looks like there is cooperation from Ukraine in exposing these records. We won’t convict Paul Manafort of anything, but it’s not necessary. It’s clear enough how the financial transactions were managed. The term “shell company” is equivalenced to sleaze.
This controversy is an October surprise occurring in August for the Clinton campaign.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:42 am
Let’s turn this around for a second. Imagine if Clinton was a fan of Putin’s and her campaign chairman had strong ties to his ally.
Trump would say “Look folks, you can’t make this up. She’s working for the Russians. In fact Putin is running her campaign and will control the U.S. if she gets in. That’s not putting America first! Believe me!”
But Trumps minions don’t care that he is the Putin puppet.
Here we are sharing national secrets with the GOP candidate. Who is he sharing them with should be the chief concern of the government.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:42 am
You want to know which side of the fence Paul Manafort sits on? This says it all, “Mr. Manafort continued working in Ukraine after the demise of Mr. Yanukovych’s government, helping allies of the ousted president and others form a political bloc that opposed the new pro-Western administration.”
Mr. Manafort has acted as a pro-Russian, anti-Western operative. It matters not that he dissolved the company. What he did after Yanukovych was ousted says it all.
And the fact that Donald Trump chose him as his Presidential campaign manager says it all about Mr. Trump as well. With this, Trump’s connection to Putin is made all that stronger and all that more toxic to every Republican in and running for office who decided to support him.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:43 am
The only place that Trump can get a loan from these days is, in fact, Russia. And his campaign manager was a fixer for a Russian-backed political party in the Ukraine.
Finally, Trump makes a point of praising Vladimir Putin while trashing NATO, calls for the hacking of his Democratic opponent’s emails by Russia, and pushes for ‘friendship’ with that same country. It doesn’t take a puzzle master to see the bigger picture here.
Trump may be financially beholden to Russian leaders, and that alone should disqualify him as a candidate for the Presidency of the United States. This is all truly horrifying and disgusting.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:44 am
Steve#74, . Until this isssue is clarified, or Manafort resigns from the campaign, I think Trump should no longer be given intelliegence briefings.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:46 am
What happened during the Republican Convention when viewed with this article’s information and Trumps own statements of liking Putin and “wouldn’t it be nice if we got along with Russia?” are very concerning and confirming.
According to delegates writing the Republican Platform at their convention 2 men from the Trump campaign came and told them to change the Republican position on Ukraine from “providing lethal defensive weapons” to “appropriate assistance” to Ukraine.
Who would benefit from this watering down of US support for the Ukraine? Putin and Russia.
According to the delegates this was the only thing that the Trump campaign asked for in the platform.
When Manafort was asked on “Meet The Press” if the Trump campaign had anything to do with the change in language on Ukraine his answer was “absolutely did not” – which contradicted 4 sources from inside the room who witnessed the event.
August 16th, 2016 at 7:46 am
To think that Trump is getting top secret security briefings has made me shudder from day one. Now I’m trembling in fear and outrage. Is nobody going to put a stop to this? Where is the vociferous condemnation, that Republicans erupt in over Hillary Clinton’s emails?
August 16th, 2016 at 7:50 am
This story has been floating around in bits and pieces for some time now – major kudos to the NYT for a terrific job here. Just the level of reporting I’ve been waiting and hoping for.
Much of it will never be entirely untangled. This is about serious and powerful players manipulating important world events well behind the scenes.
I’ve held my tongue about it in sane company because it (very ironically) resembles the sort of elaborate conspiracy stories that far right dot-connectors are always cooking up, but there’s nothing fanciful in this evidence.
Trump may be an infantile buffoon, but we need to know about his dealings with Russian oligarchs, his witting or unwitting complicity in Russian political schemes, and above all how it is that a man like Manafort could continue under the radar in the US as consultant and campaign manager for high level politicians and now a candidate for the highest office in the land.
Laid against this, Republican efforts to make Hillary’s email ‘scandal’ seem sinister, sneaky and terribly dangerous to national security seem laughable.
And where have our own security agencies been – too busy scanning those thousands of emails to notice that men like Manafort night have an agenda beyond the usual campaign chairman’s concerns?
What an election cycle? Have we ever seen the like?
August 19th, 2016 at 9:04 am
[…] Maria: I agree with Michael et al. You’re doing a wonderful service. Thank you. Let’s HOPE more Dems come your way too. And if they don’t, as Joan said they may be registering republican but when it comes time to vote…they are voting for Hillary. Every day Trump loses more support. By the time the elections come, I suspect he won’t have too many backing him anymore. […]