Sunday Punch
Posted by Michelle Moquin on June 12th, 2011
Good morning!
I know this article is a long one and some of you might not read…but for those that do, it’s a goody. Once again an article by Dr. Mercola.
The “Healthful” Drink that Can Damage Your Health
By The Fluoride Action Network
According to the U.S. Surgeon General, “there are profound and consequential disparities in the oral health of our citizens…” that have resulted in a “silent epidemic” of dental and oral diseases that disproportionately affects low-income and minority populations.
Unfortunately, not only are these groups afflicted with worse dental health, but are also suffering more extensively from the public health measure carried out under the guise of improving oral health: water fluoridation.
The Environmental Injustice of Water Fluoridation
One of the goals of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and particularly of its administrator Lisa Jackson, is achieving Environmental Justice for all Americans. According to the EPA (2011):
“Environmental Justice is the fair treatment and meaningful involvement of all people regardless of race, color, national origin, or income with respect to the development, implementation, and enforcement of environmental laws, regulations, and policies. EPA has this goal for all communities and persons across this Nation.
It will be achieved when everyone enjoys the same degree of protection from environmental and health hazards and equal access to the decision-making process to have a healthy environment in which to live, learn, and work.”
Unfortunately, the agencies and associations that continue to promote artificial water fluoridation – including the EPA’s Office of Water, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) Oral Health Division, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), and the American Dental Association (ADA) – have completely ignored racial, ethnic, and socioeconomic differences when stating that the level of fluoride used is “safe” for all Americans to consume in drinking water – on a daily basis, and over a lifetime.
A number of groups are particularly susceptible to fluoride’s toxic effects.
Fluoridation proponents are finally beginning to acknowledge the susceptibility of infants and children to excessive fluoride intakes, likely because they can no longer deny the obvious effects that fluoride has on the developing teeth, in the form of dental fluorosis.
Nearly 41 percent of adolescents aged 12-15 now have some form of dental fluorosis, an outwardly visible sign of fluoride over-exposure and toxicity.
However, also included among those that are disproportionately impacted by fluoride are minorities and low-income families. The refusal by government agencies to consider these groups when determining enforceable safety standards or recommended levels for artificial fluoridation is no doubt a form of discrimination, contradicting any assertions by these agencies that they are working towards Environmental Justice for all.
Atlanta Civil Rights leaders Andrew Young and Reverend Dr. Gerald Durley recently requested that Georgia legislators repeal the state’s mandatory water fluoridation law, based on the fact that fluoride can disproportionately harm poor citizens and black families.
According to a recent press release , the leaders “expressed concerns about the fairness, safety, and full disclosure regarding fluoridation in letters to the state’s minority and majority legislative leaders.” In his letter to the legislators, Rev. Dr. Durley states,
“I support the holding of Fluoridegate hearings at the state and national level so we can learn why we haven’t been openly told that fluorides build up in the body over time, (and) why our government agencies haven’t told the black community openly that fluorides disproportionately harm black Americans…”
Minorities Suffer Disproportionate Harm from Fluoridation
African American children have been found to consume significantly more total fluids and plain water, and thus receive more fluoride from drinking water, than white children . Additionally, African American mothers are less likely to breastfeed than most other racial groups . As breast milk contains very low levels of fluoride ), babies fed formula made with fluoridated water could receive up to 200 times more fluoride than a breast-fed baby.
Thus, African American infants and children have a higher risk of being overexposed to fluoride.
In fact, it has been known for many decades that African Americans and Hispanics are at an increased risk of developing dental fluorosis, and have a higher risk of suffering from the more severe forms of this condition.
Data published in CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report in 2005 show that Black and Mexican Americans have significantly higher levels of the worst forms of dental fluorosis than do Whites, as indicated in the following table from Beltrán-Aguilar et al. (2005; Table 23).
Table 23. Enamel fluorosis* among persons aged 6-39 years, by selected characteristics – United States, National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 1999-2002. Source: Beltrán-Aguilar et al., 2005.
Factors that Influence Fluoride’s Toxicity
Fluoride’s toxicity is exacerbated by:
- Inadequate nutrition, including lower intakes of iodine and calciumCertain racial groups are more likely to be lactose intolerant than others. Included among these are:
- Central and East Asians (80-100 percent lactose intolerant; de Vrese, 2001)
- Native Americans (80-100 percent lactose intolerant; National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, 2006)
- African Americans (75 percent lactose intolerant; de Vrese, 2001), and
- Southern Indians (70 percent lactose intolerant; de Vrese, 2001)The elevated incidence of lactose intolerance may indicate lower rates of milk consumption, and higher consumption rates of water or other beverages, than whites (21 percent lactose intolerant; Scrimshaw and Murray, 1988).Thus these groups may be more heavily exposed to fluoride in water and other beverages than are Caucasian Americans, and their calcium intakes may be compromised.
- Kidney dysfunction and diabetes, which are more prevalent among minorities than whites.Hispanics are nearly twice as likely , and African Americans nearly four times more likely , to develop kidney failure than are Caucasians.Both African Americans and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to suffer from diabetes than are whites.
- Inadequate supplies of vitamin C, vitamin D, magnesium, and selenium may also exacerbate fluoride’s detrimental effects.
Inadequate Nutrition Heightens Fluoride’s Health Risks
Poor nutrition has been found to increase the incidence and severity of:
The dose of fluoride associated with disturbed endocrine function is also substantially lower if you’re deficient in iodine (NRC, 2006). Even modest levels of fluoride in drinking water (0.88 mg/L) have been associated with reduced IQ and increased frequency of hypothyroidism when combined with low iodine, even more so than with iodine deficiency alone (Lin et al., 1991).
As poor nutrition frequently occurs among low-income families, poor children and adults are therefore far more susceptible to the detrimental effects of fluoride exposure.
Low-income families typically consume substantially less fresh fruits and vegetables, and thus more processed foods, than higher income groups. In addition to generally being less nutritious, processed foods – including those containing mechanically de-boned chicken – can also contain relatively high levels of fluoride.
Moreover, the increasing dietary intake of harmful trans fats in the United States, especially among lower income groups, may have negative repercussions in terms of fluoride metabolism. According to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services:
“Diets high in fat have been reported to increase deposition of fluoride in bone and, thus, to enhance toxicity” (HHS, 1991).
Additionally, as with African Americans, low-income children have been found to consume significantly more total fluids and plain water – and thus receive more fluoride from drinking water – than higher-income children, putting them at greater risk for fluoride’s toxic effects.
Also of concern is the inability of low-income families living in fluoridated communities to provide low-fluoride or fluoride-free water to reconstitute infant formula. Low-income families are likely not able to afford expensive filtration systems to remove fluoride from tap water, nor are they likely able to afford bottled water containing low or no fluoride.
Thus, bottle-fed infants of low-income families are at an increased risk for suffering from over-exposure to fluoride during this very sensitive developmental period.
Income Level is Strongest Indicator of Tooth Decay, Regardless of Water Fluoridation
According to the American Dental Association (ADA, 2009),
“[L]ow income is the single best predictor of high caries [cavity] experience in children. Analysis of data shows that the amount of tooth decay in children is inversely related to income level.”
In 1988, an editorial published in the Journal of Dental Research (Newbrun, 1988) reported that “About 20 to 25 percent of children are at relatively high risk of caries, despite the declining caries prevalence in the ‘fluoride generation’.” The high-risk children included the poor.
In 1995, it was found that more than 50 percent of U.S. schoolchildren had experienced cavities (Edelstein and Douglass, 1995), when preschoolers and cavities in the primary teeth were considered. According to the authors,
“Minority, low-income and underserved groups continue to experience extensive destruction in both primary and permanent teeth.”
Actually, 42 percent of five-year-olds and almost 60 percent of nine-year-olds had cavities in their primary and permanent teeth, according to National Institutes of Dental Research 1986-1987 data.
The most recent oral health statistics (1999-2004) show a direct link with tooth decay and poverty level. For example, the incidence of caries is much higher in children from families with lower income levels (HIW, Undated a-c):
| % Caries rate for
3-5 year-olds |
% Caries rate for
6-9 year-olds |
% Caries rate for
13-15 year-olds |
Family Income as % Federal Poverty Limit |
| 48 | 68 | 62 | <100 |
| 36 | 63 | 60 | 100-199 |
| 28 | 46 | 53 | 200-399 |
| 19 | 44 | 51 | 400-499 |
| 11 | 31 | 34 | >500 |
In 2008, the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) reported that the extent of dental disease in children has not decreased, and estimated that 6.5 million children two through 18 years of age on Medicaid suffer with untreated tooth decay (GAO, 2008). In November 2010, the GAO reported “high rates of dental disease and low utilization of dental services by children in low-income families, and the challenge of finding dentists to treat them are long-standing concerns” (GAO, 2010).
A study recently published in the Journal of Dental Research (also found a significant relationship between tooth loss and state income inequality among adults in the United States, with the risk for tooth loss being about 20 percent greater for those living in economically “disadvantaged” areas.
Despite claims to the contrary by promoters of fluoridation, low-income children still have high rates of tooth decay even when their drinking water is artificially fluoridated.
For example, in Georgia where fluoridation is state-mandated, 44 percent of 2 to 5-year-old Head Start children have tooth decay . And although fluoridation is required in North Dakota, tooth decay is present in 82 percent of Native American third grade children (who are often from very low-income families) compared to 54 percent of white children .
In New York City – which is 100 percent fluoridated – 56 percent of low-socioeconomic third grade children have tooth decay, compared to 38 percent of high-socioeconomic third grade children. Likewise, in Kentucky, with a nearly 100 percent t fluoridation rate, nearly 60 percent of third grade children have experienced tooth decay, yet for nearly 35 percent of these children that decay went untreated.
More than 60 Oral Health Care Reports from the 50 States reaffirm that low-income people have the worst dental health.
More importantly, these reports present quite an extensive array of data from examinations of school age children, yet all but one of these fail to mention rates of dental fluorosis. This is despite that each and every report strongly advocates water fluoridation.
State Dental Policies Receive Failing Grades
State dental policies fail one in five children, according to the Pew Charitable Trust. Even some highly fluoridated states received a grade of “F” from Pew.
Included among these is West Virginia, which is 92 percent fluoridated. West Virginia’s tooth decay rate is 66 percent for 15 year-olds. By the time these children graduate from high school, the proportion has increased to 84 percent .
It is reported that 80 percent of dental caries in children of West Virginia is concentrated in just 25 percent of the child population. West Virginia also ranks first in the U.S. for partial and complete tooth loss among adults.
The most recent national statistics show that the prevalence of dental caries in primary teeth significantly has increased for 2-5 year-olds, from approximately 24 percent to 28 percent between the 1988-1994 and 1999-2004 recording periods, and has increased from 40 percent to 42 percent for all children 2-11 years old.
Meanwhile, fluoridation rates in the United States have continued to increase, from 62 percent in 1992 (CDC, 2008) to over 72 percent in 2008!
Proponents of fluoridation would have us believe that as fluoridation rates go up, tooth decay rates will go down. But that hasn’t happened.
Instead, oral health continues to decline among children – especially those from lower income families – and symptoms of fluoride overexposure and toxicity have increased to epidemic proportions, as evidenced by the 41 percent of adolescents aged 12-15 now afflicted with dental fluorosis (Beltrán-Aguilar et al., 2010).
The Role of the EPA in Fluoridation
EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson has declared that achieving Environmental Justice for all Americans is a top priority for her agency.
As fluoride has been shown to disproportionately affect poor and minority Americans, the EPA should be giving special consideration to these groups when determining the level of fluoride in drinking water that is safe for all Americans. Unfortunately, the most recent analyses of fluoride by the EPA’s Office of Water (EPA, 2010a, 2010b) clearly indicate that the EPA is more concerned with protecting the fluoridation program than protecting the American people.
For example, the EPA’s newly proposed reference dose for fluoride (the dose of fluoride that is supposedly safe for everyone when taken every day and over a lifetime) was based on the dietary intake of fluoride recommended by the Institute of Medicine nearly 15 years ago (IOM, 1997) to prevent dental caries.
Since that time, however, it has been well established – and is now widely accepted – that the primary action of fluoride on teeth is topical, not systemic.
As fluoride is not an essential element (i.e. not necessary for human health), any dietary recommendations for fluoride are therefore illogical and unnecessary.
Thus, EPA’s newly proposed reference dose was not based on the latest scientific findings concerning the safety of this level of fluoride, but rather on outdated recommendations by those promoting artificial water fluoridation.
This reference dose will soon be translated to a new Maximum Contaminant Level Goal (MCLG) for fluoride in drinking water. If EPA were to evaluate the true science behind fluoride toxicity – free from any interference by those promoting fluoridation – the only rational outcome would be an MCLG of ZERO, effectively ending the practice of artificial water fluoridation.
What You Can Do TODAY!
The Fluoride Action Network has a game plan to END water fluoridation in both Canada and the United States. Our fluoride initiative will primarily focus on Canada since 60 percent of Canada is already non-fluoridated. If we can get Calgary and the rest of Canada to stop fluoridating their water, we believe the U.S. will be forced to follow.
Please, join the anti-fluoride movement in Canada and United States by contacting the representative for your area below.
Contact Information for Canadian Communities:
- If you live in Ontario, Canada, please join the ongoing effort by contacting Diane Sprules at diane.sprules@cogeco.ca.
- The point-of-contact for Toronto, Canada is Aliss Terpstra. You may email her at aliss@nutrimom.ca.
Contact Information for American Communities:
We’re also going to address three US communities: New York City, Austin, and San Diego:
- New York City, NY: With the recent victory in Calgary, New York City is the next big emphasis. The anti-fluoridation movement has a great champion in New York City councilor Peter Vallone, Jr. who introduced legislation on January 18 “prohibiting the addition of fluoride to the water supply.”A victory there could signal the beginning of the end of fluoridation in the U.S.If you live in the New York area I beg you to participate in this effort as your contribution could have a MAJOR difference. Remember that one person can make a difference.The point person for this area is Carol Kopf, at the New York Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation (NYSCOF). Email her atNYSCOF@aol.com . Please contact her if you’re interested in helping with this effort.
- Austin, Texas: Join the effort by contacting Rae Nadler-Olenick at either: info@fluoridefreeaustin.com orfluoride.info@yahoo.com, or by regular mail or telephone:
POB 7486
Austin, Texas 78713
Phone: (512) 371-3786- San Diego, California: Contact Patty Ducey-Brooks, publisher of the Presidio Sentinel at pbrooks936@aol.com.
In addition, you can:
- Comment on the EPA’s docket on the proposed ban (just scroll down a bit). It’s open for public comment up to July 5, 2011.
They published the proposed ban in the Federal Register and the deadline for comments were extended due to requests from Dow and their allies in the pesticide world (such as American Farm Bureau Federation, National Pest Management Association, North American Millers’ Association, and the California Rice Commission).Tell the EPA you expect them to uphold their duty to protect you and your children from this toxic food fumigant.
- Make a generous tax-deductible donation to the Fluoride Action Network, to help them fight for your rights to fluoride-free food and water.
- Check out FAN’s Action Page, as they are working on multiple fronts to rid our food and water supplies of fluoride.
- For timely updates, join the Fluoride Action Network Facebook page.
*************
Readers: If what is said is true, and I do not know if it is true, If I were you Germany, I would let the aliens go. The promise of an earthquake more disastrous than Japan would not only be horrific for your country, but would have detrimental effects on the rest of the world.
If you don’t mind me saying, I would release those aliens. You can always try another time when your country is “green” and you no longer have nuclear power plants.
Sorry for the late post – blog Tech problems this morning. That’s just the way it is sometimes. If you can get in, blog this BABE!
Lastly, greed over a great story is surfacing from my “loyal”(?) readers. With all this back and forth about who owns what, that appears on my blog, let me reiterate that all material posted on my blog becomes the sole property of my blog. If you want to reserve any proprietary rights don’t post it to my blog. I will prominently display this caveat on my blog from now on to remind those who may have forgotten this notice.
Gratefully your blog host,
michelle
Aka BABE: We all know what this means by now :)
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June 12th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
Part of my blog today addressed an AB I recently shared some time with who was newly in the body. As always, its a wonderful experience to see the Being master the ability to function within one. I believe this particular knowledge I wish to share will find an audience here with other ABs just beginning to utilize the body. It is also my belief that some HBs will find humor with this, so I am sharing.
“I have a suggestion to you and any other AB that is newly in the Body. When your body is becoming fully functional, I know you enjoy the sensation of what HBs would call “passing gas.” American HBs do not generally share the same enthusiam. While you could get away with the behavior not upsetting members of the same gender (males definitely if you are male, females less so if you are female), you definitely do not want to exhibit your enthusiam before a member of the opposite gender.
Please “pass gas” or farting as it also commonly called, when you are alone. Excuse yourself to another room to conduct the act if you must do so while with company. You will find that by containing the behavior of farting or passing gas to when you are alone, you will be better received by American HBs. Sometimes, the body cannot control the farting or passing of gas. If the gas happens to you when you cannot control it and you are in the company of others, saying “Excuse Me” is usually the accepted way of handling it.”
My social work is done today.
PrP
June 12th, 2011 at 5:49 pm
Giving life a little perspective…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BewknNW2b8Y
June 12th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
You who would disparage the Emperor should keep your shields up and pray they protect you. Be happy that He does not take umbrage with the peons or their words.
However, your Command may be found wanting in the leadership department. There is only one way to fire a commander under the Emperor’s command.
Seek to carry your displeasure quietly in His realm.
June 12th, 2011 at 7:52 pm
Wow Boggzy, that video has me crying, the story and the singing…thanks, – ZL
June 12th, 2011 at 9:27 pm
Christine:
I checked to be more accurate this time. Sorry about my over estimate of 2017 when the time of Tanaka’s return is closer to 2012 and possibly the first few days of Dec 2011.
You may reach him via Tan7akaK6. I suggest you start up a conversation with 11ok65ru as it is his Vessel that relays to that Galactic cluster. As he broke in to correct me, it is my opinion that he is stand-in for Tanaka’s slot. Casual conversation should begin with a short explanation of your mental contact with Tanaka.
He will break in when he is satisfied that that you have received Tanaka’s intended message(s). Do not lose patience if he does not respond immediately.
He may suggest a meet at a local spot of your choosing. The meet must occur between 1PM and 4PM. He will normally appear in the form of Tanaka unless you suggest he does not.
Meets are for you and him only. No guest allowed. It must be a place that would contain at least three other humans. If he feels that any of the above will be compromised, he will not show.
This is not to say any of this will occur, only that it is possible if you, make the effort.
Finally, if a meet does occur, please DONOT touch the person unless he makes and overture to you suggesting it is okay.
Morris
June 12th, 2011 at 9:34 pm
EvLo13L4:
So you are back? I never doubted your resolve. Is the hunt back on, or am I safe here for now?
Could be the Arcfinor is better for its absence. An arrangement could be made for its return if the borrower would be forgiven.
I would not ask, except 470 years of friendship should be worth something.
Best wishes, and Congratulations on your promotion.
Uryte
June 12th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
EvLo13L4
My thoughts drifted more to “all that power your Emperor represents” and the request goes to the TAO for the rescue.
Ben3o77
June 12th, 2011 at 9:43 pm
Uryte, why worry about EvLo13L4′s pursuit of you. He can carry no weapon to earth per his exalted emperor’s orders. Orders which put the 11ok65ru Vessel’s shuttlecraft at the mercy of the food.
If the emperor is so afraid the we the intelligent visitors to this cattle planet would misuse our power and harm the TWO, why doesn’t he arm his watchers on this farm. He has created an atmosphere that lends the food to think they are the hunters.
Daniel
June 12th, 2011 at 9:55 pm
Ben3o77, mine would drift more to the disarming of all within the present boundaries. None of which apply to the TAO. Have they now become a power unto themselves.
My question is what is the true connection to the TWO and the TAO? It seems all too convenient that they benefited from a war stoppage that meant certain annihilation to their very existence.
What is the true Command authority and presence of a Commander who allows her command to be drawn into a conflict with odds of more than a billion to one?
Dare I insult Azza? Would she strike in the very heart of the Emperor’s no weapon’s zone? Should I fear retaliation for this insult?
Peace be damned. We are a species whose Armadas would not enter this opportunity less solar system, but for THE TWO. WE take! Yet, here we sit, peace all around us.
8n8mi78
June 12th, 2011 at 10:03 pm
Daniel, you have played your hand and it is about to be called. Unless your Commander presents herself before the Emperor with explanation why She would allow one of hers to use the Emperor’s title in such disrespect, Her Vessels will be ordered out of the non weapon’s zone.
Anridka Galaxy 4 has been set aside to resolve the issue. Her armada and her seconds will be met by The Emperor Himself.
EvLo13L4
June 12th, 2011 at 10:16 pm
Thanks PrP for the “gas” explanation. It has become a thing of interest among our earth reps. But as we do not eat human food only humans would this produce an scent detectable by humans during a “gas” episode?
iola//3
June 12th, 2011 at 10:40 pm
iola//3
What I mean by ” gas” some call air.
But the expulsion is the same in the same manner.
If there were any odors i would have addressed it immediately. I admit it was quite humorous at the time with his musical symphony
However it’s not behavior that should be encouraged in public
when meeting new beings. I wasn’t sure that message was clear enough at the time considering the amusement.
PrP
June 12th, 2011 at 10:48 pm
8n8Mi78 A cessation of your “sitting in peace”, could and probably will be arranged courtesy of your insult to Commander Azza. No allowance will be made for your lack of weapons as you have acknowledged that you were aware of your deficiency when the insult was made.
Abiv
June 12th, 2011 at 11:57 pm
Dr. Arieh Eldad:
Many arab men and most arab women are aware of the hypocrisy of the men of islam who put women and children in harms way by forcing them to be combatants for the cowardly men who sit in their homes and wave their fists at Israel and America. They vow to fight to the death to defend Allah and their way of life.
“Barbarians” is a kind word for them and the Hamas who force women and children to die because they are too cowardly to risk their own lives for their convictions. One would have to think they don’t believe all that much in the Qur’an.
Now Israel soldiers and civilians are forced to shoot first and ask questions later lest they be blown up by a child or woman forced by the brave Hamas to strap lethal bombs to their bodies.
Then those cowardly men tell the world that that child or woman chose to die. Who believes their lies? Only the cowards dare to believe. The same cowards who would believe that a man who would marry a 6 year old child could be a Saint.
Allah would no more make such a man a voice of His as He would any other child molester. But to these men it is okay. Just as it is okay to force women and children to strap hidden bombs to themselves and have them detonated remotely by some coward hiding a discrete safe distance away.
Jalalabad
June 13th, 2011 at 6:19 am
Four New Negotiating Tricks That Can Save Anyone Big Bucks
Stuart Diamond, JD
We usually make a counteroffer when told the price of a home or car that we want to buy, yet most of us treat other prices and policies as if they were set in stone. They’re not.
Every professional and financial interaction is an opportunity for negotiation. People who fail to take advantage of this are leaving thousands of dollars or more on the table each year.
Negotiation doesn’t mean offering lowball bids or making power plays. There are strategies that provide greater odds of success without the risk of appearing cheap or confrontational…
CITE THE COMPANY’S STANDARDS
Many companies have official standards, mission statements, advertising slogans or mottos that promise excellent service or quality. Service providers, including telecom companies, financial firms and hotels, are particularly likely to have these.
Examples: Red Roof Inn promises on its Web site “freshly renovated, cozy rooms” and “luxuries like incredibly comfortable bedding.”
AT&T says on its site that its mission is to “connect people with their world, everywhere they live and work, and do it better than anyone else.”
When a company lets you down, browse its Web site, ads and any other printed materials for written statements about its standards, mission or the high quality it delivers.
Write them down, then calmly and politely quote them to a company representative. Next, describe the problems you encountered, and ask the rep to gauge how your experience measures up to this promise or mission. If the employee agrees that your experience fell short, ask what he/she can do make up for this.
If the employee will not admit that you deserve compensation, calmly ask how the CEO of the company might react if he/she were brought into this conversation.
Even if it is not realistic that the CEO of a big company would get personally involved in a minor disagreement, evoking the CEO forces the employee to consider the potential career fallout if a boss learned that he failed to live up to the company’s standards.
Most employees would rather give a customer a discount or perk than risk negative career consequences, particularly if the customer is friendly and polite.
Options if you can’t find relevant written standards or slogans…
Ask a company rep questions that establish standards before describing your negative experience.
Example: Ask, “Does your company stand behind its services?” or “Does your company sell well-made products?”
The answer will almost certainly be yes. Now describe your poor experience, and ask what the company can do for you to match the standards that the rep just described.
Ask an employee to estimate the value of the subpar goods or services you received.
Example: When the hot water in my expensive London hotel room didn’t work, I asked a front-desk clerk, “What is the value of my room without hot water?” He decided that it was half the normal room rate and reduced my bill.
BE AN ALLY TO SALESPEOPLE
Employees who sell big-ticket or big-margin items, such as furniture, appliances and jewelry, often earn much of their income through commissions or bonuses.
The size of that commission or bonus usually is not tied simply to how much customers pay for items. When you negotiate with these salespeople, start not by requesting a lower price, but by asking, “What can I do to help you earn a higher commission?”
Examples: Perhaps one of two items that you are deciding between would result in a higher commission, even if it’s not the more expensive item… or perhaps the salesperson would earn a larger bonus if you purchased multiple items at the same time rather than spreading out purchases.
Even if there isn’t anything you can do to boost the commission, asking this question casts you as the salesperson’s ally in reaching his income goals.
That is likely to make the salesperson more willing to help you reach your goal — a lower purchase price or other perks.
Most customers instead start negotiations by asking for a lower price, creating an adversarial relationship with the salesperson.
Helpful: If you’re not certain whether a salesperson receives commissions, it’s OK to politely ask.
TAP INTO BIG-BUYER DISCOUNTS
Big spenders often qualify for big discounts. Even if you’re an ordinary customer, you might be able to negotiate for these volume discounts if…
You buy two big-ticket items. If most of a merchant’s customers buy just one big item at a time, buying two should entitle you to extra savings.
Example: At some appliance and electronics stores, buying just two televisions qualifies for a volume discount — but few customers know to ask.
If you don’t need two, perhaps you could team up with a friend who is shopping for something similar. Ask the salesperson what he could do for you if you buy more than one pricey item.
If the answer is, “I can’t give you a discount,” ask him, “Who can?” The store’s manager or owner might be more flexible.
You buy the most expensive of two or more comparable items. The expensive unit likely provides a larger profit to the merchant — and perhaps a larger commission to the salesperson — than the cheaper one.
It’s in the salesperson’s financial interests for you to choose it, so you may get a much bigger discount. Explain that you’re trying to decide between the comparable items, and ask the salesperson or store manager what he can do to encourage you to buy the expensive one. Don’t do this unless there’s a valid reason to buy the pricier item, such as superior workmanship.
You belong to a local organization with many members who also could become customers with your urging. Tell the business owner or manager that you work for a big local employer… have a position of leadership in a large local association… or live in a major condo complex or retirement community.
Point out that you might be able to steer other members of the group toward the business, then ask what the business can do for its most loyal customers.
UNITE WITH MERCHANTS
The Internet often offers lower prices than area stores, but buying locally has its advantages, too. A local seller might provide better product support, and buying local might mean that there’s no wait for delivery.
You can use low online prices as negotiating tools even if you prefer to buy locally — merchants sometimes will lower their prices or throw in other perks, such as service plans, to compete with Internet sellers.
Unfortunately, customers who attempt to use Internet prices as negotiation tools generally do so by saying that they have found a low price online, then asking the local merchant to match it.
This direct approach tends to remind merchants and salespeople that the Internet poses a major threat to their businesses and jobs, which often triggers feelings of fear and anger. Those feelings greatly reduce the odds of successful negotiations.
Instead, say, “I’d rather buy this from a local business such as yours than on the Internet, but the Internet price is lower. Is there anything you can do to help me buy from you?”
This casts you as an ally working with the seller against the looming threat of the Internet, increasing the odds that the merchant will do what he can to help you.
Personal interviewed Stuart Diamond, JD, a practice professor of legal studies and business ethics at The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia.
His negotiations course has been the most sought-after course by students for 13 years. Diamond has served as a consultant or adviser to numerous countries and Fortune 500 companies, as well as the United Nations and the World Bank. He won a Pulitzer Prize as a reporter for The New York Times and is author of Getting More: How to Negotiate to Achieve Your Goals in the Real World (Crown Business). http://www.GettingMore.com
June 13th, 2011 at 6:26 am
Prism Princess:
I did enjoy our conversation last night. Your input offered a balance perspective to my group’s position as proven by the almost equal number of alien visitors who share it.
The Other Daniel
June 13th, 2011 at 7:22 am
Uryte, I was a Christian in the days when they were newly accepted as the only permitted religion of Rome. I often went with Anis to accuse others of being worshipers of the old pagan or hebrew gods.
Under the christian laws merely accusing someone of being a heretic gave us license to torture and slay them. We dined gloriously! Iraq ran red with the blood of the slain and the nights were delightfully serenaded by pleading cries of the tortured. Anis was fond of saying “listen to their screams, dinner bells are ringing constantly.”
I ran into Anis(still using the same name) in Syria recently. He was still naming others as different from the present ideology and torturing and slaying them as freely.
I have moved on to more challenging ways to obtain the daily meal. My new companion is a converted human. He was fatally wounded along with his family in the first “shock and awe” committed by the first Bush president.
I saved only him, Noah. Now he hates Americans and makes every effort to capture and torture them before he slowly heat cures them for my dinning pleasure.
The “difficulty” arises when they are not reported to one of the various parties who send others out with Noah to hunt down american targets. Most would as easily settle for an arab woman they could accuse of a violation of their interpretation of Shari’ah law. So I am on many occasions forced to hunt my own meal.
I am not particular whether the meal comes from the race of arab or westerner. But I do prefer males. Isolating and facing down a highly (admittedly perhaps not skilled)armed arab is both challenging and exhilarating.
Abul-Haqq
June 13th, 2011 at 7:26 am
Women of Islam, beware the seduction of this blog. The almighty and great God, Allah will point you out. And you will be punished.
Walliyullah
June 13th, 2011 at 7:27 am
I was told to check out this blog. Smashing!