Just noticing: “Observations Of A Blogger
Posted by Michelle Moquin on November 18th, 2012
Good morning!
“Just noticing…”
How The Tragic Death Of A Woman Denied An Abortion In Ireland Could Become The Norm In America
Savita Halappanavar, a 31-year-old Indian woman living in Ireland, went to the hospital when she first began to miscarry — but thanks to Ireland’s stringent abortion ban, medical professionals denied her repeated requests to quickly terminate the pregnancy because they could still detect a fetal heartbeat. The Irish hospital required her to extend her miscarriage over three days until the fetus’ heartbeat officially stopped, and by that time, Halappanavar had developed serious blood poisoning. She passed away just a few days later.
Halappanavar’s death helps highlight the tragic effect of Ireland’s stringent abortion ban, but the impact of that type of restrictive legislation isn’t just limited to that country. In fact, lawmakers in Ohio are quietly pushingextreme anti-abortion legislation that would subject the women in that state to a situation incredibly similar to the one in Ireland.
During this year’s lame duck session, Ohio legislators are planning to revive HB 125, a so-called “heartbeat” bill that would ban abortions as soon as a fetal heartbeat can be detected — which can first occur as early as five or six weeks, before many women may even know they’re pregnant. The proposed legislation represents the most restrictive abortion ban in the United States. If HB 125 is passed, it would criminalize all abortions after the emergence of a fetal heartbeat without allowing even the narrowest exceptions in potential cases of rape, incest, or the mental health of the woman.
Even if Ohio’s bill includes some kind of provision that would allow women to seek abortions in life-threatening situations, Halappanavar’s death points to the fact that health risks aren’t always immediately apparent. A 1992 Supreme Court ruling in Ireland amended the country’s abortion ban to include an exception in cases where the woman’s life is in danger, but Irish hospitals don’t always know how far that medical exception can stretch. They are often reluctant to provide women with abortion services unless the situation is very clearly life-threatening — and for women like Halappanavar, that can already be too late.
And in cases where the fetus is not expected to survive — when women like Halappanavar are undergoing a miscarriage, or when doctors discover fatal fetal defects — anti-abortion legislation is often murky, even in this country. In Arizona, where a stringent abortion ban outlaws the procedure after just 20 weeks, women who discover fatal defects that will not allow their fetus to survive are forced to carry the fetus to term anyway.
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michelle
Aka BABE: We all know what this means by now :)
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November 19th, 2012 at 7:15 am
“Where did it state that they thought if they got together so God does not punish them?”)
Genesis 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, [lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth].
The people of Babel believed that they would be scattered upon the face of the whole earth if they did not build the City, Tower and have a name.
(“god punished them because they had Peace and harmony and all working for the general good.”)(“Assumption with no basis.”)
There is nothing in Genesis that says the people of Babel were violent or evil, It clearly states that they were all working together. The only purpose for scattering mankind over the face of the earth and changing the one language to many languages was to insure that mankind would never cooperate again.
Creating different cultures and beliefs and languages insures future conflict. But since the Bible is a fairy tale and the story of Babel was nothing more then a story. It really does not matter.
November 19th, 2012 at 7:17 am
It shows once again why the Bible, or Religion should not be allowed to play the arbiter.
It’s been years since the other sciences got emancipated from Christianity, while Medical Science is still manacled by it. Thus we have annual stories emanating from the Vatican about saints who trump the pathetic efforts of the best medical practitioners.
Then there are the billionaire evangelists performing faith healing, dead raising miracles. Finally we have geriatric celibates posing as experts on the spreading of viruses, on the advisability of abortion, etc.
The medical profession is a noble and critical profession and needs to freed from the clutches of it’s God appointed controllers based in the Vatican and elsewhere.
November 19th, 2012 at 7:21 am
Howie:
What do you think of the violence we are having to defend ourselves against now? Do you know what will happen to our beloved Israel?
I have been called to defend my country. I act brave, but I as so scared.
Baile
November 19th, 2012 at 7:24 am
The Irish spent 800 years fighting tooth and nail to break away from England, yet seem unable to stand up to a more sinister tyrant: the Vatican.
That bastion of male sexual perverts, and misogynists continues to ruin any chance for women to reach equality or young boys under their tutelage to remain virgins,
November 19th, 2012 at 7:26 am
This is a cautionary tale for pregnant women in the US — don’t even go near a Catholic hospital.
November 19th, 2012 at 7:27 am
Well, she was female in a religious, anti-abortion setting. No reason to expect any respect for her life or health.
This is exactly what would happen in every state of the US if our own compulsory pregnancy industry had its way. Female life means nothing to them unless it’s still in the
November 19th, 2012 at 7:30 am
Ireland === Icky. do not travel there. dangerous to women.
November 19th, 2012 at 7:31 am
“A post-mortem examination found she had septicaemia, a form of blood poisoning, and an E.coli infection.” That was written by Daily Mail UK, with this Im off; Im risking myself telling the abortion would have killed her too, what she needed was treatment for the E coli infection.
The E coli explains why she had the miscarriage- She needed rest and plenty of fluids to help with dehydration and fatigue and antibiotics. Anyway, I wont tell anything else until I have more information. Once again, Induced Abortion is murder.
November 19th, 2012 at 7:33 am
Baibre, really so you missed when the Taoiseach stood up in front of the Daíl and f*cked the Vatican out of it over the child Abuse scandal.
this is a terrible event and must be fully investigated. If the medical team did allow Religion to decide her medical treatment then they deserve full punishment.
November 19th, 2012 at 7:44 am
Michelle, I don’t know why this surprises people. Women are not treated equally in any country, most don’t even get respect as a fellow human being.
This is especially true in the US, where we pretend to be superior. America who’s men shout at every opportunity that it is the place that leads the world forces women to risk death for their religious beliefs.
But what can you expect from a bunch of idiotic women who let a male led religion tell them they are not equal to men when it comes to worshiping their god.
The result is women’s health and women’s lives don’t even matter to other women. It’s impossible to understand how intelligent women continue to follow lock step behind ignorant men.
PS: Zen Lill thanks for thinking of me. I was in a situation so I couldn’t check out my favorite place. Best to you too of course, Michelle.
Alycedale
November 19th, 2012 at 7:45 am
Michelle, I’m sorry to say the story didn’t surprise me either. The anti-abortion cult in the US would do kill women that way in a heartbeat if they could.
November 19th, 2012 at 7:46 am
This is why I don’t want the catholic church or *any* church for that matter, forcing their beliefs on *my* body!
“Remember the Ladies, and be more generous and favorable to them than your ancestors. Do not put such unlimited power into the hands of the husbands.
Remember all men would be tyrants if they could. If particular care and attention is not paid to the ladies, we are determined to foment a rebellion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any laws in which we have no voice or representation. ”
~ Abigail Adams
November 19th, 2012 at 7:47 am
She does not look Irish. Lots are sadly mistaken if they believe the country they are in will bend to suit their culture. Women have to wear veils in Iran.
The only reason Ireland is concerned is it is not good public relatiins for India. Bet lots in Ireland are forced into motherhood and give themselves abortions. Of course never reported by the women or the media.
November 19th, 2012 at 7:49 am
Anyone who knows Ireland knows that there’s been a huge push back over the last decade.
Tell me of the nations that have also suffered Child Abuse scandals who else has publicly condemned the Vatican on official record, and closed the Embassy to the Vatican?
November 19th, 2012 at 7:59 am
To those who have a God given ability to use my common sense. I pose this question. How do people spread out?
Do they just walk out into the wilderness with no supplies or tools or weapons. No they spread out from a base camp a city from which they have supplies and tools and weapons.
They establish a city such as Babel and from it they spread out and establish more cities from which they then spread out more and more cities and more spreading out.
Claims by idiots that God told them to walk out into the wilderness without food, without tools without weapons makes no fucking sense what so ever.
If God had actually told them to spread out all over the face of the world it could only be accomplished through the creation of cities, towns and villages.
So let me ask you are you visited by ghosts/spirits//angels or other guidence. Because if you are I would hang the Closed sign on your bedroom door or window because they are evil.
Jesus, if you truly fucking exist, how can you allow so many idiots claim authority in your name? They are making you look like a fool and an idiot yourself.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:05 am
Tammie, you are picking one negative issue and blaming a full nation for this. I’m sure that other nations have had screw ups in their medical area.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:15 am
Frankly, I am tired of men like James#8 trying to cover the cause and pain there fucked up religion causes women by looking for medical reasons to cover their religiously enacted laws.
So now James you look to science to explain what you looked to religion to enact legislatively. Here’s a true medical explanation for your disgusting lies.
Treatment for the infection would have been pointless and downright impossible if the dying/dead fetus inside her body WAS THE CAUSE.
Removing it was clearly the only recourse.
You can’t treat an infection if the cause for it is still in play. And it’s CLEAR the MISCARRIAGE was the CAUSE of it.
The fetus, at 17 weeks, COULD NOT BE SAVED and telling yourself whatever makes you feel better about the scenario to avoid making the tough calls just makes you a selfish coward who doesn’t have the stones to face the reality.
Or perhaps more to the truth, it allows you to continue to use religion to put the lives of women in danger. No problem for assholes like you who will never have to be put to such risks.
Wanda
November 19th, 2012 at 8:18 am
james you are a fucking idiot. Somebody slap this guy hard! I would like to see how he is going to take it when something similar happens to his wife/daughter.
Sit beside her hospital bed and pray for her to heal? Guys like you are the reason women around the world need to be on their guard as if anything which happens to them is their fault.
In this case, Michelle understand your frustration! I bet it feels like you are trying to convince people that the stone age is over.
James, what next? Oh yeah! I know… you would like schools to start teaching creationism…..
November 19th, 2012 at 8:21 am
Sparky #16
Allowing Women to die, over a medically needed Abortion, and being the home of the infamous Magdaline laundries, which kept women as slaves up until 1996, does qualify Ireland as the one western nation that really should not be traveled to, and should be escaped from, if you are a woman.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:24 am
The e coli infection killed the baby and the woman, she never needed an abortion, she wasted her time. If she had received treatment for the e coli infection the baby and herself would be ok right now.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:29 am
Freda, you have no idea what Irish people look like. We’re only an island geographically, and we are very proud to come in many colours. The rest of your post betrays comparable ignorance of Irish culture and politics.
Savita Halappanavar was an Irish citizen. She was Irish. She was one of ours and we let her down in the worst possible way.
We don’t give a damn what India thinks, this is an unforgivable failing of our state to its own and we mean to see that it doesn’t happen again.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:32 am
Abigail Adams, What a woman… so ahead of her time.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:34 am
James, the removal of the dying fetus might have prevented the poisoning and might have saved her life.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:35 am
I want the most important person to live, that’s the mother, the Fetus is not yet born, the mother is, she is a full person.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:37 am
Well guess Im done here, you really want to insist on murder and lead other women to the same outcome.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:38 am
James, are you so weak-willed, so intimidated by the REALITY that you would CONDONE this woman’s death, which COULD have been prevented???
I don’t think you have any business arrogantly claiming ‘murder’ when it’s clear YOU have no regard for human life.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:40 am
Never, EVER, let religious people run your government.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:44 am
I wonder how the catholic heirarchy will spin this one since they consider women nothing more than baby factories for the church.
No doubt they will canonize another Irish “saint” as they’ve done elsewhere when priests have been prosecuted for pedophilia.
Its time this megolith of primitive human ignorance be disbanded, its gold and jewel-encrusted holy paraphenalia sold off with proceeds going to sex education and free contraception for African nations.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:48 am
Septicaemia is caused by bacteria; not a living foetus. Foetuses never attack their moms. They’re never perp’s. According to the source article in the Irish Times, the foetus was removed after its death so, according to that info’, there was no festering corpse left inside the mother.
Actually, the infection would have started with the mother and spread to the baby from her (from the mother’s blood in her endometrium, into the baby’s placenta, through the baby’s umbilical cord and into the baby’s body proper).
In crisis pregnancies, the mother and child are co-victims and we need to be looking at ways to help both of them at the same time just as we all would if any of us came across 2 guys dehydrated and starving in a lifeboat.
We’d help both of them without trying on purpose to kill either of them.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:49 am
Outrageous. A woman’s life – ANY LIFE – must be protected. In that vein, we’re looking forward the the Times blasting a headline, “Death of millions of unborn babies at abortion mills causes uproar across America…” Ooops… Don’t want to go there, L.A. Times? Too real, too cutting…?? Thought so…
November 19th, 2012 at 8:50 am
A lawyer does not have to forgo his or her morals even at the expense of someone’s life. Why should a doctor?
There was mention of the Doctor’s right not to preform a surgery that he or she believes is immoral. Should Jewish doctors be forced to work on the Sabbath? Should muslim doctors be forced to work with pig heart valves Why should doctors be forced to forgo thier morals?
November 19th, 2012 at 8:52 am
An abortion can result in complications; risk of ectopic pregnancies doubles, and chances of a miscarriage and pelvic inflammatory disease increase as well. Speaking with a friend, I thought I should remind you that.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:53 am
If she was Irish, then so was Ghandi. You are a stupid person who shouldn’t be allowed to comment.
November 19th, 2012 at 8:55 am
So very true and sums up my feelings so completely.
Well said Jenny
November 19th, 2012 at 9:02 am
Freda, You’re missing the whole damned point.. The FACT REMAINS that this woman, who was living in Ireland at the time, was DENIED what could have been a life-saving treatment and DIED as a direct result.
So acting in the best interests of the woman is something that is unique to the culture of India, but NOT of Ireland?
November 19th, 2012 at 9:06 am
Bob, they don;t run the Irish government and are far less powerful than ever in Ireland. Yes for 20 years the TD’s have kicked to touch to avoid the political cost of dealing with this. That doesn’t mean that religion runs the Government.
November 19th, 2012 at 9:09 am
James #32, When will you men stop trying to scare women into doing your bidding?
The Turnaway Study begs your attention. http://www.ansirh.org/research/turnaway.php
November 19th, 2012 at 9:12 am
Bob, you are so right, but in Ireland, those “religious people” are the Irish themselves, who voted down abortion on demand several times in referenda.
November 19th, 2012 at 9:17 am
I got bored with the first paragraph. Ill let you know later. But I can tell you in advance that if they do not want to murder a baby, then the sluts should not get pregnant in the first place
The best option they have is called abstinence.
Lets take Ireland as an example, an unusually safe place for women to be pregnant, why, because they’re Catholic.
Only three out of every 100,000 women die in childbirth in Ireland. The math checks out. That’s an example for the whole world. Unless you want to give advice based on the example of the immature 14 years old threatening to commit suicide.
November 19th, 2012 at 9:21 am
As far as I am concerned about the opinions of men posting on this topic; None of it matters. The risks from pregnancy and childbirth are exponentially higher, and I don’t see you finger-wagging about those.
Here’s an idea. Mind your own business. If no WOMAN invites a man into their doctor’s exam room, then KEEP THE FUCK OUT.
MEN! This means YOU.
November 19th, 2012 at 9:23 am
Then DO PLEASE EXPLAIN, how else this poor woman could have gotten that infection?
http://www.ansirh.org/research/turnaway.php
November 19th, 2012 at 9:32 am
James #39, did you even read the article? This woman was married and she was losing the baby. This baby could not have lived outside her womb.
The hospital and doctors LET HER DIE. The baby could not be saved but the mother could have been saved. She was murdered due to lack of propler medical care.
If this had happened in America the doctors and hospital would belong to her husband.
Have you figured out that pregency is safer in Ireland because of the governmnet paid healthcare?
That 14 year old girl threating suicide, she was raped. A lot of rape victims consider suicide.
You are an example of the typical male who are misogynist hiding behind religion to torture women. You are the sluts.
Until we women have had enough and stand united up to your likes, this tyranny will never end. But your day is coming.
Sadhbh
November 19th, 2012 at 9:35 am
Brilliant, punish the baby right?
November 19th, 2012 at 9:35 am
Are you for real?
November 19th, 2012 at 9:40 am
So the GIRL should have been further punished?
November 19th, 2012 at 9:41 am
**So the GIRL should have been further punished?**
In the context of what you’re replying to, of course.
Ever hear a group of men discussing abortion and patting each other on the back for the brilliant ‘solutions’ they come up with?
November 19th, 2012 at 10:02 am
Youre quite insecure about men, work on that and second, there is no justification toward murder. If a few guys do that, let them go to jail for life, with the possibility to request parole, if requested 20 years after being in jail theres good chances anyone from that minority had plenty of time to learn from that mistake. But the rapist is the one who has to be punished, quite unhealthy from you to tell the baby deserves to be murdered, even if he or she is product of a rape.
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