Raped, Shunned, Harassed, And Driven To Suicide
Posted by Michelle Moquin on April 15th, 2013
Good morning!
It’s hard to switch from laughing at a self-induced sex act (from yesterday), giving us all a break from all of the serious stuff, to a sex act, without consent, that is serious and anything but funny.
Here’s the write from the Huff Po:
Rehtaeh Parsons, Canadian Girl, Dies After Suicide Attempt; Parents Allege She Was Raped By 4 Boys
A 17-year-old Canadian girl died Sunday following a suicide attempt last week. The family of Rehtaeh Parsons said that their daughter never recovered from an alleged rape by four teenage boys in November 2011 that left her deeply depressed and rejected by her community.
Placed on life support last Thursday at a local hospital, Rehtaeh Parsons died on April 7 after her family made the decision to take her off the life support.
In a Facebook memorial page, the girl’s mother, Leah Parsons, wrote that Rehtaeh had been shunned and harassed after one of the boys allegedly involved in the rape took a picture of the incident and distributed it to their “school and community, where it quickly went viral.”
“Rehtaeh is gone today because of the four boys that thought that raping a 15-year-old girl was okay, and to distribute a photo to ruin her spirit and reputation would be fun,” Parsons wrote.
According to Canadian news outlet CBC, the alleged sexual assault happened at a small gathering at which teenagers consumed alcohol. One of the boys in attendance reportedly took a photo of another boy having sex with Rehtaeh Parsons and sent it to friends.
Gawker writes that the bullying got so bad after the photo circulated that the family was forced to relocate.
“She was never left alone. She had to leave the community. Her friends turned against her. People harassed her. Boys she didn’t know started texting her and Facebooking her asking her to have sex with them. It just never stopped,” Leah Parsons told the CBC.
Canada’s Chronicle Herald reports that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police completed a yearlong criminal investigation of the sexual assault, but “there was insufficient evidence to lay charges.” A police spokesman told the newspaper that authorities are now “investigating a sudden death involving a young person.”
In an interview on CBC Radio program “Maritime Noon,” Leah Parsons said that the family was “devastated” when they learned criminal charges would not be filed.
“[The police] said that they would go talk to them and that [the boys] realized what they did was wrong, but [there was] nothing they could do, criminally,” Parsons said. “It was a slap in the face.”
Although Rehtaeh was a 15-year-old minor at the time of the alleged rape, “because she was on the cusp of not being underage” prosecutors thought the accused could claim that they did not know she was under the age of consent, Parsons told Maritime Noon. According to Parsons, the four boys accused of rape were younger than 18 at the time of the incident.
As described by Parsons, the shaming and harassment stemming from the incident had long-lasting psychological and emotional effects on her daughter. Parsons also told Maritime Noon that Rehtaeh suffered from depression and had checked herself into a hospital after having suicidal thoughts last March. A Twitter account that appears to have belonged to Parsons features references to drug culture, as well as what appears to be drug paraphernalia.
********
Readers: When is this abuse of women and girls ever going to stop? First of all this is sickening that the cops know who these boys are and are doing nothing about it. How can that be? I can’t imagine the parents aren’t pushing this further.
Secondly, what I want to know is where are the parents of these kids who kept harassing her on Facebook? You can’t be anonymous on Facebook. We’re these parent told that their sons and daughters were being cruel to this girl in a public venue? Could they not see for themselves? How can a photo of a rape not be evidence? Where is the accountability? Too many unanswered questions.
I am so sickened by this behavior. Young men and boys need to know that this is unacceptable. But when you have the authorities letting them get away with it, of course they are going to think it is okay. And as long as that keeps happening, others will think it is okay too.
If we are ever going to get close to stopping this sick behavior we need consequences to happen when a crime is committed. We need support from women and men, boys and girls. It saddens me that even her girlfriends shunned her. This is when girls really need to support each other. We need to teach our young men to respect girls, and for young girls to support their sisters. It has to be taught at a young age and examples need to be shown with consequences. (sigh)
What are your thoughts? Blog me.
Mac: You are too funny.
Peter: Yes, I felt sorry for the eel too. I HOPE he gets charge with animal cruelty to make this eel suffer like that.
Lisa: I was wondering that myself. I really don’t know. I can’t imagine he would live through a perforated intestine.
Clark: What a story. What one will do to get off. Don’t they have porn shops that sell those kinds of toys that can do the job, and are a little bit safer?
Wanda: Like that would really happen. Ugh..I was naked, greasing up my ass and feel backwards onto this trophy. Yeah right.
Charlene, et al, all the way down to #37: I am laughing my ass off now!…made my Monday morning.
Peace out. And please be careful when choosing what to put up your butt. You’ve been forewarned by many :)
Lastly, greed over a great story is surfacing from my “loyal”(?) readers. With all this back and forth about who owns what, that appears on my blog, let me reiterate that all material posted on my blog becomes the sole property of my blog. If you want to reserve any proprietary rights don’t post it to my blog. I will prominently display this caveat on my blog from now on to remind those who may have forgotten this notice.
Gratefully your blog host,
michelle
Aka BABE: We all know what this means by now :)
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April 15th, 2013 at 12:22 pm
What Women Want in a Man—Low Body Fat
You might think that super-masculine features—strong jaw, bulging biceps, hairy chest—are the kinds of physical traits women typically find most attractive in men. After all, such manly features suggest that a guy has lots of testosterone and so could outcompete lesser males in life (and in love).
But according to a new study, what really turns women on is low (but not too low) body fat! Surprised? Here’s the scoop…
The same testosterone that makes a man look muy macho also has a downside—it can suppress the immune system. A theory called the immunocompetence handicap hypothesis holds that manly-looking men must be extra-strong and fit because they have overcome this handicap, and thus they would be primed to pass on good genes to their kids—which would naturally make them attractive to women. However, the new study pokes holes in this theory.
Researchers measured the body fat of 69 male volunteers ages 19 to 31. About 65% of the men were at a healthy weight…about 30% were overweight or obese…and about 5% were underweight. The men were photographed wearing just underwear.
They also had blood tests to measure their levels of circulating testosterone. And—as a gauge of the strength of their immune system responses—they were vaccinated against hepatitis B and then had their antibody levels measured one month later.
Next, researchers asked 29 young women who were in the fertile phase of their menstrual cycles—a time when their hormones would make them most receptive to sexual cues and most responsive to masculine appeal—to view the photos and rate the men’s bodies and faces for sexual attractiveness.
A different group of raters (women and men) assigned scores to each man’s photo based on perceived levels of masculinity. And a third group of women rated the men’s facial fatness, which is related to body fatness. Then the researchers compared the various ratings to how well the men’s immune systems had responded to the hepatitis B vaccine.
Results:
Contrary to what the immunocompetence theory would predict, the men who had high masculinity ratings were not rated as the most sexually appealing, nor were their immune responses the strongest.
Rather, the physical trait that ranked as most attractive among the women was having just the right amount of body fat—specifically, a relatively low 12% body fat (which would be typical of a man who was fit and slim, but not an elite athlete). Interestingly, the men with that physical trait also had the most robust immune system responses to the vaccine.
Guys, heed this: To attract women, or to be attractive to your woman, worry less about building massive muscles or cultivating the perfect beard stubble, and focus instead on achieving a slim-but-not-skinny physique through a healthful diet and regular exercise. To see how your current body-fat stats stack up to that 12% ideal, click here.
Editor’s note: http://www.bottomlinepublications.com/content/article/health-a-healing/what-women-want-in-a-manlow-body-fat?utm_source=email&utm_medium=SilverpopMailing&utm_campaign=2013-04-15%2520DHN%2520NL%2520CID-0000000899%2520-%2520A%2520(1)&utm_content=&spMailingID=41315777&spUserID=NTE4NTQ4MTA2NDUS1&spJobID=184696773&spReportId=MTg0Njk2NzczS0
Check out the study photos below. On the left is a composite image of the eight study participants with the lowest antibody response…on the right is a composite image of the eight participants with the highest antibody response. Which guy would you think would be more attractive to women? My vote goes to the one on the right—Mr. Healthy Immune System.
Source: Markus J. Rantala, PhD, adjunct professor, department of biology, University of Turku, Finland. His article was published in Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences .
April 15th, 2013 at 12:27 pm
The harassment Rehtaeh experienced has made me wonder: why the hell wouldn’t any of her peers stand up against the cruelty, point out to others the sickness of it all etc. Then I remember the bystander effect.
Even amongst adults, people will generally just stand around thinking someone else will do whatever needs to be done, and then with everybody doing that, nothing gets done until it’s too late.
Kitty Genovese was stabbed to death by a rapist/murderer in an attack that lasted for 30 min, had 38 witnesses, all while she screamed for help. She got no help and she died.
Good people can stand by clueless until it’s too late. Everybody, teens and adults, would be wise to be aware of this and do their best to live a little more consciously, esp. when that means living a little more humanely.
Also, stop demonizing the “snitch” and the “rat”. People need to know, especially youth, that it’s a GOOD thing in certain circumstances to rat out the criminal behavior of others. This case being one.
Let your kids know that standing up to criminal activity, reporting it etc. is not a black mark on ones character, but a noble stance in favor of justice.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:29 pm
While everyone is applauding Anonymous for outing these rapist what about the other kids that were at that party? Shouldn’t they have been the ones that came forward? Haven’t they been taught to treat there fellow man better than this. There is a minimum of 4 involved but I would bet there were more than that at this party.
Where were the parents of any of these kids? The list of people that dropped the ball on this one is huge. While I am sure Rehteah’s parents are devastated, why didn’t they teach their daughter not to get herself into a drunken stupor at the age of 16?
My point is this, anonymous shouldn’t have had to hack computers to find this information, it never should have happened to begin with. But since it did why wasn’t anyone willing to step forward and help. That whole community should be ashamed and embarrassed.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:30 pm
If anyone has a legal background, I hope you respond. In situations of “date rape” when a woman is deemed too drunk to consent (lack of memory, etc.) can the guy claim to have been “too drunk” to know that consent wasn’t given OR that since they were both drunk and neither remembered, then no crime was committed?
April 15th, 2013 at 12:31 pm
Loving that Anonymous is involved; we need people like them.
On a very odd note did you notice that her odd name, Rehtaeh, is Heather backwards? At first I thought it was Hateher backwards.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:32 pm
Apparently, Locke, her best friends turned on her… This is an article that has more details about the night, from her mother: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2308762/Rehtaeh-Parsons-Tragic-tears-Rehtaeh-Parsons-mother-buries-teenage-daughter-killed-bragging-rapist-posted-picture-ordeal-online.html
April 15th, 2013 at 12:33 pm
My heart goes out to the Parsons family,for the horrible loss of their. The BOYS!!! shoud be to blame for this tragedy!! they are fully responsible for all the horrible actions. And her so called “friends” I am ashamed of them even more! not being there for her.
Again prayers to all the young & old girls that have gone through the same actions of the male population! Yes parenting has a lot to do with bringing up children & it is hard work. remember it takes tough love!!!
April 15th, 2013 at 12:33 pm
It seems like the Canadian government is thinking of every reason NOT to prosecute these boys…. And who are these boys? They named Rehtaeh, why not name these boys?….That was s a terrible community to live in if she was shunned.
This is a two-way street…..The parents of boys should be teaching their sons right vs. wrong. And if they don’t, the parents should be held responsible. .If the government can’t charge these “boys” because of their age, they should charge the parents who had the ultimate responsibiity for their underage children!!!
April 15th, 2013 at 12:34 pm
My god, whoever would would assault this girl and continue to do so while she vomitted, they should be executed for that kind of torture. These are really dangerous people and better to nip that problem in the bud before the do more harm.
Release their identities Anonymous.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:35 pm
If anyone cares after some digging around one of the boys name is Kyle Rice from Eastern Passage, Nova Scotia. He graduated from Cole Harbour District High School Class of 2010.
If you pay attention to the details Anonymous has hacked one of the boys accounts. There is a Facebook group set up called Speak the Truth defending the “boys”, if you search through the posts you will find people naming one as “Kyle”.
Of the three girls defending Kyle all have one friend named Kyle in common on their friends list…Kyle Rice. So one could assume that Kyle Rice (Anonymous Hacked his Facebook) is one of the four boys. Just some information I thought I would share.
Link to “Speak the Truth”: https://www.facebook.com/groups/444774028941541/?fref=ts%29
April 15th, 2013 at 12:36 pm
The law enforcement discourages people from taking the Law in their own hands while doing nothing on their own. Good we have anonymous.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:37 pm
Its common sense to know teenagers drink. Yes its against the law for minors to drink but so is drugs and murder, just cause its illegal isn’t going to stop people from doing it. Stop blaming the victim and pay attention go what these boys are saying.
“Yeah I had sex with her but she was throwing up at the time.” Who the heck does that? That’s not normal, something a very sick individual would do and I hope they convict all parties involved, they deserve it.
All that girl wanted was to have typical teenage fun and to live life. Thanks to them that’s gone now. R.I.P
April 15th, 2013 at 12:38 pm
Anonymous is the new “perferred” method of law enforcement. Because they cut through the red tape and the bull to get to the TRUTH. Traditional Law Enforcement needs to take new approaches (& attitudes) to come up with the better results.
The bigger issue is the Law/Legal System itself. Canadian governments (Federal/Provincial) take forever to change and ammend (if they do at all) from the rules that were set in place more than 100 years ago. Those laws worked “just fine” then but nowadays we need laws that are supportive of the people of our days.
Punishment & its methods to get to Punishment need to be set to the equivalency of the crimes that are being created and committed right now. Use the past as a stepping stone to developing a better system otherwise it’ll all turn into more of a joke than people are starting to think it is.
I believe in the Police, I believe in the system and what it’s supposed to be for but I also am not stupid. Things are breaking. People are breaking. Hugs to the Families of all effected.
Message to Anonymous: Please dont get caught. Please dont get over confident or warped. Please stay true to why you even started this. You may fail at some point but what you have done has taught people justice can prevail.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:39 pm
Brenda#4, While I’m sure they could try that angle, it doesn’t justify taking pictures & forwarding the pictures to other people or bullying someone online.
For the most part, situations of “date rape” generally do not occur when both parties are drunk or drugged. One party purposely drugs or feeds alcohol to the other party for the specific purpose of raping them.
While I certainly do not condone what happened to this poor girl, there are so many instances of under-age girls being raped at parties because they are passed out drunk. This should be a very strong lesson to girls to be responsible for their actions!!
It is far more difficult to rape a girl that is stone-cold sober than one who is passed out drunk. Don’t give any male the opportunity to do that—always be in control of yourself.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:43 pm
In Canada 16 is the GENERAL age of consent(save for pornography, positions of power, or sodomy where it is 18). Children 14-15 can consent to people who are up to 5 years their senior(http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/dept-min/clp/faq.html)
Additionally in 2001 the supreme court in it’s ‘wisdom’ declared in R. v. Sharpe that “where lawful sexual acts are documented in a visual recording, such as photographs or a videotape, and held privately by the participants exclusively for their own private use…
The cost of including such materials to the right of free expression outweighs any tenuous benefit it might confer in preventing harm to children. ” – now I think that arresting these boys for taking photographs is something more than a “tenuous benefit” but I was a law clerk 6 years ago I was never a lawyer or a justice of the supreme court – so my opinion doesn’t count.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:44 pm
If you want to stop bullying, just tell it like it is: Bullies are MENTALLY ILL.
Plaster this fact all over the Internet AND bullying will cease to happen.
Why? No one wants to be known as being mentally ill.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:45 pm
Lots of information I didn’t know. Thanks. Laws made to suit the predator .. sad. We are becoming more and more like Sodom and Gamorrah. And my opinion doesn’t count either. At least we are still able to have an opinion…. so far
April 15th, 2013 at 12:46 pm
No, those laws aren’t clearly to “suit the predator.” Any rational person would see that they’re they’re to protect other teenagers from having sex with other teenagers.
So while some 36 year old pred couldn’t legally have sex with a 14 year old, a 17 or 18 year old senior wouldn’t be sent to prison for sleeping with a fellow student. This shouldn’t be too hard to grasp.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:47 pm
Some people might say “the boys were just kids.” That is just an excuse. Together, they committed a crime and none of them had the common sense to do the correct thing. Bad parenting and bad kids.
Boys just don’t realize that a girl’s emotions are much different from a boys, both as a youth and an adult. By spending time in jail they can take some classes and learn some understanding about human beings.
Oh, and perhaps the boys can get some lessons on manhood from some of their roommates in prison.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:48 pm
So this is the world we are living in? where gang-rape and child pornography are OK? but underage drinking isn’t? and the cops, they don’t have DNA testing? They don’t have rape kits? They can’t check for bruising consistent with struggle?! they don’t have sexual assault counselors? are we in 1953 or 2013, I’m a little confused.
Why do we continue to let ‘children’ run the world – lacrosse players, group of wanna-be macho-men that are really sexual deviants in the making?! Rape is not a game, and just because a person is drinking, doesn’t imply consent.
So I suppose if she was wearing a skirt above her knees then that just means she sent the signal out to be taken advantage of and brutalized by 4 different boys?! Absolutely ridiculous!!!
Nowadays parents and teachers are too concerned with being perceived as ‘cool’ and ‘buddies’ instead of disciplinarians and leaders! stop trying to fit in with your kids and when they do something wrong, punish them! ground them, take away the PS3, they’ll forget about it when they’re 25 anyways! how on earth did our morals take a 180?! let me guess, it must be the video games and not the parents who don’t spend enough time with their kids to teach them right from wrong. Yes, video games, that’s why.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:49 pm
I feel like I walked into the Salem Witch Trials here. Since when does an accusation of witchcraft, rape, or any crime automatically equal Guilt ? And those who express doubts that the accused really are guilty wind up getting accused, themselves, of being in cahoots with the witches/rapists !
April 15th, 2013 at 12:50 pm
aka surviving as best they can. Government can’t do it all. People need to protect them selves and those around them. People have just become to sheeple for their own good and think the AUTHORITY knows it all and will fix it all.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:54 pm
The real culprits are the rapists and the adults at the school, in the police force and in the DA’s office, who did nothing about it.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:55 pm
“How many more children have to die?” question is often asked. I am 45 years old, and when I was in my early to middle teens, I was very eager to be popular. I also wanted to be in with the popular “partying” kids. So I would take a bottle of beer, smoke a cigarette and flirt with boys.
There were even a few times when I had too much to drink. However, never and I mean never, did those boys treat me with disrespect or try to hurt me. I had good parents who guided me, loved me, watched over me and I did everything I could to hide that activity, lie and cover my tracks.
I didn’t want to get caught drinking a beer at 17 or smoking. However, even one time when I was dizzy and not feeling well, two boys, reluctant to get me in trouble but concerned, went to my parents and told them I might have had too much to drink.
They never laid a hand on me except to help me to my parent’s care and tell me they hoped I felt better and didn’t get in too much trouble. I don’t know what has changed, but whatever it is, it needs to stop.
I’m far from proud of my behavior and I don’t “party” anymore or smoke, but I am grateful that I was surrounded by decent people who cared about my welfare.Something has changed for the worst.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:58 pm
I did investigations for 27 years and in that role dealt with schools on a daily basis. Some were good, some were bad, most were okay during the process but all were told by both police and child welfare to stay out of the investigation.
If the school took it upon itself to start a seperate process then the administration and any school party involved runs both the risk of undermining the legal process and of criminal charges and civil litigation. There are specific criteria within the judicial system that must be followed if a conviction is to be obtained.
Break or confuse that process and it is all just wasted time as the defence lawyer tears apart your case using everything from small inconsistencies to admission against intetrests. Schools are right in staying out of the process. However, they do have a mandate to protect the victim and segregation of victim and alleged victimizers should be automatic.
Doing this without unduly punishing either (The allegation might be false or vindictive, it does happen sometimes) without concrete proof of a crime is a real concern for teachers. One mistake and you are branded professionally and socially for a long time.
Better to let those who trained in the field to do their job. They don’t come into your classroom to teach, you don’t go into their investigation to investigate.
April 15th, 2013 at 12:59 pm
The investigation of crimes is the purview of law enforcement – not educators. Teachers and principals have neither the training nor the jurisdiction to do so (especially if it occurs off-site) and doing so could actually jeopardize any future investigations or court cases (and opens them up to lawsuits).
The only responsibility (ethically, morally or legally) they had here was to inform and cooperate with the appropriate authorities if they become aware of any allegations of harrassment or abuse (which includes bullying and rape).
Within the school, steps should be taken to protect the safety and rights of the accused and, especially, the accuser until the investigation is complete. That could include removing them from that school or making alternate arrangements to receive their education.
April 15th, 2013 at 1:03 pm
Hafa Adai Here on Guam, Everyone is being unbelievably stoic and putting their faith in the US military to knock anything he sends out of the sky.
April 15th, 2013 at 6:58 pm
It’s all very sick…though it’s not as cut and dried as it looks, cops/schools/parents just don’t have protocols in place for this type of thing. Cyber bullies know how to bury their identity and they also continue to post on FB even after a suicide, I witnessed that after a friends daughter committed suicide this past Sept, the cyber stalkers ARE mentally ill there’s no doubt about that, posting that on FB or anywhere else will not deter that behavior, it’s sociopath/pyschopathic behavior.
& Rape is rape and I’ll say no more on that…though…please think through this:
You can’t stop your kids from trying out drinking, pot or trying to act older than they are sexually by wearing/saying overly and overtly provocative without the capacity to handle the attention (or realizing just what unwanted attention/harrassment may occur or how it snowballs…)
So as a parent – and you cannot always blame the parents, when kids want to be sneaky, they fly under most parents radar (not mine, I was a rebel I know all the tricks) so I’m very vigilant about tracking FB posts (and who they friend) on my kid and some of her buddies pages, it’s important to do this, and I’ve inboxed more than one mom when it seems like over the top sexual innuendo is being bantered about & egged on by a girl trying to get attention (NOT blaming this or any other girl, just understand that sometimes they’re trying on their sexual attractiveness on for size and get carried away in convos…which inadvertently cause stupid and young testosterone driven boys to believe she ‘wants it’ when in fact she’s just toying around, back in my day you were labeled a cock teaser but you rec’d no bullying over it).
My disclaimer: I am NOT blaming this girl or any girl for creating a rape, not at all. My suggestions are merely protective of girls, knowing there are lawless boys/men out there, until we really change the world, you simply have to protect yourself, to do otherwise is leaving yourself/your life in the hands of another, please do not ever do this.
…& Yes, it’s so important to get boys to understand what constitutes rape (I was drinking, too, is hardly an excuse for rape…though it’s done now – so as easy as it is for me to say that it did not prevent this situation…) though I’m going to say that since as teens, their pre-frontal cortex (where deliberate/smart actions and decisions are formed, not in full gear till 25-6) yet, so why leave anything to chance?
I don’t allow my girl to be over at houses where older bros and their buddies might be congregating unless I am POSITIVE the parental’s are on the property and I’ve walked through their own plan of action for checking up on everyone without being overly invasive on space. I’ve given my rap to my girl about EVER attending parties and doing stupid things just to appear cool or happening, ‘remember YOU are the party, no alcohol is going to make that better (snap), etc…’
…and I’ll finish by telling you what I heard a comedian say recently, (and it’s totally appalling), here’s where males feel justification for their horrific behavior, here’s the line: ‘what’s the mating call of the Western female? – answer: ‘I’m Soooo drunk’ – kinda makes me sick, and it makes me even sicker that 4 boys took advantage of that type of situation and then she paid the ultimate price…
I’m sure there will be those of you that think that’s placing blame on the girl…not at all…reread the above, it’ll help your girl come from a place of strength (until we get males to stop or be punished in a horrible way so there’s real change).
Luv, Zen Lill
April 15th, 2013 at 9:12 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/20/opinion/simmons-steubenville-girls
this article just brushes the surface of the ‘more than meets the eye’ part of our current rape culture, and this gives a brief sketch into the inner life of the adolescent girl in the US today…
- ZL
April 15th, 2013 at 9:18 pm
What a sad day for the US. my thoughts and prayers are with Boston tonight. I know I’m not alone in sending everyone directly affected much love and healing energy.
/SB
April 15th, 2013 at 9:29 pm
Great job Zen Lill
April 16th, 2013 at 7:04 am
Thank you, Millie, but I’m not done yet…
Please check this out and show it to your sons!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZkC_fNxmQk
- ZL