Mich-ogyny
Posted by Michelle Moquin on December 14th, 2013
Good morning!
This one is for Doug…who posted a link to an article that talked about this sick action taken by an overwhelmingly male Michigan legislature that would ban insurers from offering basic health plans that would include coverage for abortion. But, in all of the many comments coming in the past few days, I neglected to make a comment. However, today I wanted to address this as well since it has to do with us girls, and is worth the repeat.
From The Raw Story
Mich-ogyny
The overwhelmingly male Michigan legislature yesterday passed a bill that would ban insurers from offering basic health plans that would include coverage for abortion, telling women that, if they want to kill their babies for the “purpose of sexual convenience” or because they don’t understand that rape culture is more about guys getting together to watch the game over a few beers than, you know, viciously assaulting women because the bitch actually ‘wanted the D’, well, you ladies are going to have to pony up for some separate rape insurance because we already paid for dinner and drinks:
Michigan lawmakers passed a controversial measure on Wednesday that will ban all insurance plans in the state from covering abortion unless the woman’s life is in danger. The law, which takes effect in March, will force women and employers to purchase a separate abortion rider if they would like the procedure covered, even in cases of rape and incest.
Supporters of the “Abortion Insurance Opt-Out Act” argue that it allows people who are opposed to abortion to avoid paying into a plan that covers it. Opponents have nicknamed it the “rape insurance” initiative, because it would force some women to anticipate the possibility of being raped by purchasing the extra abortion insurance ahead of time.
*S*I*C*K*O*S*
Happy Saturday Everyone!
I am off to celebrate the Holiday season and Champagne is the drink of this beautiful day. I HOPE yours is just as good.
Blog me.
Peace & Love.
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michelle
Aka BABE: We all know what this means by now :)
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December 14th, 2013 at 11:13 am
What a fucking soap opera of comments yesterday!
/SB
December 14th, 2013 at 11:19 am
I don’t understand why women support these idiots.
December 14th, 2013 at 11:21 am
Obviously you are new to this blog Social Butterfly. There have been more drawn out “soap operas” here, but probably not nearly as juicy (no pun intended) because they involve the two main characters.
December 14th, 2013 at 11:48 am
42.Greg Says: December 14th, 2013 at 11:00 am.
Greg, you need to listen to your daughter. Zen Lill would be a terrible mistake. She is just not mature enough to bring into your family circle. If she can treat Michelle the way she has, you can bet she would turn on your family with any information she garnered as a result of a romance between the two of you and expose it on any medium she chose for revenge.
Why you would be interested in a woman who can’t admit to her good friend that she made an error in judgment by revealing a personal confidence and a mistake by not thinking through the concept that Anonz would need to use her on a blog to have an affair with her, is unexplainable. Except when one accounts for the immaturity of most men. When that little head in your pants(briefs) starts making decisions for you, this can happen.
Listen to your daughter and pass this one up.
December 14th, 2013 at 11:54 am
The simulator appears to be backfiring. The recording device is at capacity too. Come on kids, get it together. There can be no hindrances this time of year. This weight has to be directed where needed. He must be received.
PrP
December 14th, 2013 at 12:03 pm
I thought republicans were against forcing people to buy insurance coverage…..
December 14th, 2013 at 12:04 pm
The wingnuts and Christofascists who have a stranglehold on this state are slaloming to the bottom in a rocket-powered sled, and those of us who are sane and rational are being unwillingly dragged along for the ride.
I’ve grown to hate Michigan. I’d leave in a heartbeat if I could. Barring that, my only recourse is to try to vote out as many of these mother fuckers as I can.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:05 pm
Sue, Only if Obama suggested it.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:16 pm
I’m with Social Butterfly, Zen Lill will never get it that she was just plain wrong on both accounts.
Zen Lill won’t admit it was her mistake thinking Michelle was referring to the second Brittany with that smiley face because Zen Lill didn’t bother to click the link Michelle put in to show who she was referring to.
Neither will she admit she was acting like a dizst for accepting a blog suggestion that Anonz and Michelle was using her as a beard. I doubt she even knows what the term means.
Nor will she admit that she was wrong for diverging a confidence that Michelle made to her about sleeping with Anonz if that is where she got that titbit.
Yes, Social Butterfly it is a soap opera, but you neglected to make the observation that it is a soap opera because Zen Lill made it one. If she had issues with Michelle’s behavior, the mature adult woman thing to do would be to call or email Michelle with her concerns NOT to air their dirty laundry(if you can call sleeping with Anonz dirty, I wouldn’t) on the blog.
NO you are not wearing BIG Girl panties, Zen Lill. You are wearing diapers, and dirty ones at that. If Greg, Larry, or any other man is considering an affair with you they had better watch their back if the break up is acrimonious.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:16 pm
Sue, this gets my vote for the blog comment of the month.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:17 pm
Leave Zen Lill alone. We all make mistakes. She will apologize in her own time.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:18 pm
I’m with Kevin I’m pretty sure you two just won the internet
December 14th, 2013 at 12:18 pm
Yeah, Martin, rally your people and vote ‘em out. Take your state back.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:19 pm
A thousand thanks for teaching me “Christofascists”. Stuck in Michigan because you can’t afford to move someplace decent? I’m in a similar boat in another state. Millions of us…
December 14th, 2013 at 12:19 pm
Like a car accident? In a car accident both parties should have insurance and the one in the wrong covers the other person’s damage. In a rape the victim should have insurance incase a crime is committed against them?
December 14th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
Any woman voting Republican deserves what she gets: fewer rights, less freedom, and 2nd-class status.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
Murray, If only it could be applied selectively to the women who vote Rethug…
December 14th, 2013 at 12:21 pm
Nancy Barron Yes, let’s enslave all the women who are not members of the ruling party.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:22 pm
Tom, More like they want to enslave themselves, but whatever.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:22 pm
Yes, rape is exactly like a car accident-except, you know, the part where it’s NOT an accident.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:23 pm
“If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.” ~ Florynce Kennedy.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:23 pm
Dale,You mean, like a “legitimate” rape?
December 14th, 2013 at 12:24 pm
Conservatives just love big government! How ironic while they whine and complain about the big government of the ACA they are implementing an even bigger government to force women to purchase “rape” insurance.
Of course these people are members of the American Taliban trying to force Christofascist Law down the throats of all Americans.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:24 pm
The Republicans are just trying to destroy a women. What else are they going to do to women. It’s getting sickening.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:24 pm
And I’m “preparing” for rape with my own health insurance already. The hell I need a separate one for? Rape is another level of personal violation, for it to be compared to a car accident is despicable!
It’s like “forget the woman… let’s just focus on this life inside her that she didn’t want/plan for/wasn’t ready for.”
December 14th, 2013 at 12:25 pm
Seems the analogy of a “car accident” is better than a “flat tire” as one Kansas lawmaker suggested. If you decide to abandon Michigan, don’t look to Kansas. My concern is that these right wing idiots will make rape less of a crime if it’s insured. “Well she has insurance… she’ll be OK.”
Misogynistic creeps… and the deluded people who cry for fetuses and ignore abused, neglected, and abandoned children… vote to repeal government benefits for children already here. 70% of welfare recipients are children.
They would cut benefits to these kids and their moms… force their moms to have rape insurance. THESE people need drug tested. They obviously are on crack.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
Gloria#23, EXACTLY!!! I knew someone else understood ;)
December 14th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
Red, And contraception would be dispensed in gumball machines
December 14th, 2013 at 12:27 pm
Red, My comment has always been this: If men could get pregnant, there would be an abortion clinic on every other street corner, like Starbucks, and contraception would be free with purchase of coffee.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:28 pm
Pam:#24
Republicans are trying to destroy women? This has to be one of the most uninformed totally biased statements I have ever heard. I am republican and live in a house full of women I must be doing it wrong.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:29 pm
Shani, they should force men to buy Rape Insurance in the event they ever rape a woman … after all …. in a car wreck BOTH cars are insured
December 14th, 2013 at 12:30 pm
Gloria#29, they would also come in flavors like cool ranch and nacho cheese.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:49 pm
Social Butterfly, this blog can be cruel at times. Wait till the debate stars raging about whether you are a made up character of Michelle and Doug. Then we will see just how tough your skin is.
I have been here since the beginning also. But I take time off from posting so as not to draw the ire of the envious on this blog. Some are so jealous of those that post regularly that they can’t wait to join in on a beating down of one.
I remember when they were at it about Howie. He is the sweetest man on this blog. Granted I would rather sleep with Anonz( don’t go off on me Zen Lill, and there are no lines to read between.) but Howie is definitely the sweetest male here.
And even he takes a break occasionally. I suppose for the same reasons, to avoid the vicious vitriolic villains on this blog.
However, I am loyal to this blog because Michelle refuses to censor it, even when she is the victim of abuse by its VVV. That’s my heroine! And heaven knows there are too few female heroines left. I lost one when Zen Lill became just another dumb blond joke when she professed to believe that she was used by Anonz and Michelle. What a waste of potential talent. I too watched her uTube video with fun and admiration. What a waste of talent!
December 14th, 2013 at 12:58 pm
Michelle, on both of these topics, your lead story, and your being accused of duplicity. I have no words.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:59 pm
This is a money grab for the insurance industry. I can’t believe this passed.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:00 pm
This is just mind-boggling. What is the purpose or benefit of this law?
Hmmmm, I AM a woman afterall so there’s a good chance at some point in my life I might get raped, so I better get some rape insurance……just in case?! WTF.
What is this? Why are we putting people who would even pass a bill like this into public office?
We are truly beyond being a f*(cked up society.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:00 pm
I had to recheck the calendar to make sure it was 2013 and not 1913. Stuff like this makes me wonder what century I’m living in.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
I will urge all of you to read ‘the ethical slut’ the key to all relationships betw friends, lovers, and especially poly lovers is openness, communication and honesty. An epic fail occurred on all those levels. Enough said.
If you want to put your own panties (or diapers) in a twist over it, ill leave that up to you to put your poopie wherever you like.
The topic of the day is much more important and no it’s not like car insurance, that’s ludicrous.
Ellen & Greg, you two should hook up, you’d be great together : )
Misty, thank you and please refer to the above. I already apologized for Lsos (too strongly worded).
I’m going to wear my lace thong and carry on packing with a glass of champagne, that sounded good.
Luv, Zen Lill
December 14th, 2013 at 1:02 pm
Mary#34 Michigan and Michelle both lost.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:09 pm
Right on, Emily, that is the smartest assessment so far about Howie and The vitriol. I’m ok w you thinking I’m a dumb blonde in fact it works best fr me when people underestimate me.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:10 pm
Let’s be honest here Zen Lill. The only thing that has failed here is your ability to admit you were wrong on all accounts. The only “epic” failure is your inability to apologize to Michelle for your baseless accusations(please don’t go to that tired in between the lines bullshit) and your violation of a confidence she placed in you.
Woman up and we can all have a glass of champagne with or without the thong.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:11 pm
Emily #33 let ‘em bring it on. A picture exists of Michelle and I side by side taken last year. I would have no problem with her sharing it. It could possibly get me some dates if my look was known. :)
/SB
December 14th, 2013 at 1:13 pm
I’m liking that idea of sitting down with a beautiful blond wearing a lace thong with a glass of champagne in her hand.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:22 pm
Social Butterfly, why not follow Zen Lill’s example and have Michelle publish your photo. It couldn’t hurt. It doesn’t look like we will be getting a repeat of Zen Lill any time soon.
I mean with her refusal to even acknowledge what is so apparent that she just flew off the hook and went “take no prisoners” on Michelle. I can only imagine the perturbation Michelle must have felt to read the vitriolic outburst Zen Lill hurled against her on Friday’s blog.
It made me sick and I’m a man. All I can say is, it must have hurt real bad. I hope she knows that we all feel for her. And I for one admire her not stooping to that level and trying to get even.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:29 pm
Social Butterfly(Michelle) what makes you think that we would believe the woman you posed with is Social Butterfly? Frankly she sounds more like you than that silly blond.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:36 pm
I don’t live in Michigan, I don’t ever plan on moving there, but what the flying fuck? I’m genuinely tearing up reading this. Why does this keep happening?
December 14th, 2013 at 1:38 pm
Made me cry too, Erin. And I didn’t even watch the video. I figured if the article made me cry that was all I could handle. I wait till tonight and pour an extra strong drink and see if I can handle the video then.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:39 pm
Let’s just follow this logical thread and make health insurance coverage for every conceivable type of medical care a separate purchase. Because you should have planned ahead before you broke your leg in a skiing accident, needed physical therapy following a stroke, or got cancer. You have a human body prone to disease? Maybe you should have thought of that sooner.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:40 pm
Oh – let’s carry that thought even further. Since women are most susceptible to rape therefore needing that insurance rider, then obviously, since men are the most likely rapists (which can result in a pregnancy), therefore all men should carry rapist liability insurance.
Just in case, you know.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:41 pm
We’ll only get their attention if we make them do it for erectile dysfunction.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:43 pm
I unfortunately do live in Michigan and all I can think of is ‘I hate my state sometimes
December 14th, 2013 at 1:44 pm
So do other states’ obamacare plans cover abortions?
December 14th, 2013 at 1:46 pm
I don’t think obamacare can cover abortions, as no state money can go to abortion. My understanding is that they are saying that any insurance policy being sold in the obamacare marketplace (which would include private plans that often do include abortion coverage) can’t cover abortions.
So you need to buy an additional policy not in the marketplace. Because of the Hyde amendment I think the insurance companies would have to be able top show that none of the money that came from the government would go towards that abortion coverage anyway, but it looks like this will make women’s insurance rates go up, even though that is supposed to be illegal.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:48 pm
“The Michigan Legislature, now that they’ve solved all of the problems in Michigan (LOL)”
This.
I mean, just for starters, isn’t Michigan the same state with five figures worth of previously untested rape kits…?
Maybe the legislature just felt that losing their collective minds would be a nice gesture for the holidaze.
Otherwise I can’t call it.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:49 pm
Snead, Thanks for the clarification.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:50 pm
Ron, Yes, and its largest city is declaring bankruptcy. But once again, the party of small government (lols) is more concerned with what may or may not be going on in the nether regions of the ladies than stuff like that.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:50 pm
Ron, I believe those rape kits are only originating from the city of Detroit, not the entire state. Yay Michigan! (I’m from MI so I’m laughing and crying at the same time right now.)
December 14th, 2013 at 1:51 pm
I think we should introduce a law stating that all men 18-65 need to buy impregnation insurance. Get a women pregnant? Better have this insurance to cover their medical expenses and child welfare.
So what if she said she was on the pill. You should have thought about that. So what if the condom broke. You should have planned for that. Oh, she got pregnant and didn’t tell you and now 18 years later you owe all this back child support? I guess it’s your own fault for having sex. Ever. In any context.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:54 pm
There are no real words for this crap.
December 14th, 2013 at 3:22 pm
I’m not good at technology or the internet, but can someone find a petition to sign or an organization to give money to to fight this? My checkbook is ready.
December 14th, 2013 at 3:23 pm
Okay, I’m going to go ahead and ask it, what’s all the outrage about?
If I’m reading the article right it’s that instead of abortion coverage being offered as standard, it’s something that you now need to request. What’s the big deal about that? I get that it’s not great or even good, but the with reactions I’m seeing here you’d think the legislature just went and banned abortion wholesale.
December 14th, 2013 at 3:25 pm
As a state that is already really struggling, with their biggest city in bankruptcy, this is going to be very interesting and heartbreaking to watch play out. Are they literally going to let all of their new, poor citizens starve to death? Because they aren’t going to have the money to take care of all of the new children that happen as a result of this bill.
A pregnancy could easily send someone like me from the middle class to poverty. But because I’m middle class, I could probably scrounge up the dough for an abortion, if necessary. There are plenty of people who have less, and who wouldn’t be able to come up with the money.
If you can’t come up with the money for an abortion, having a child is not something you can afford. If you can’t come up with the money for an abortion, buying extra insurance is a much bigger financial hardship. This will exclusively hurt poor women, which will in turn hurt the entire state of Michigan. More people on food stamps, welfare, and probably a lot more children in the foster care system.
You’d think law makers might think of that, but it must be so hard for them. Their heads are so far up their own asses, it’s probably hard to think of anything but the smell.
December 14th, 2013 at 3:27 pm
Sally, This is the most reasonable and thought out comment on here. It makes me happy to read a cohesive argument opposing the bill as opposed to knee jerk reaction-ism.
Kudos.
Also, I agree with you.
December 14th, 2013 at 3:28 pm
In this particular scenario, you’d be electing to have an abortion. I have no issue with you having the abortion itself, but I don’t want to subsidize it with my tax dollars.
Why should I be punished as someone in a similar situation as you, but a who is taking several precautions to not get pregnant? Pay for your own damn abortion, if you want it.
In the case of rape, incest, or birth defects, I DON’T HAVE ANY PROBLEM helping to pay for it with my tax dollars. To elect to have one because it’s inconvenient for you to have a kid – yeah, you can pay for that one yourself.
December 14th, 2013 at 3:30 pm
Sally it is not about you having an abortion being against their religion. This is a calculated ploy to force white women to carry to term to stall off the coming demographics that predict white americans will lose their majority at the polls by 2027.
December 14th, 2013 at 3:31 pm
Snead, But your tax dollars won’t be paying for anyone’s abortion regardless because of the Hyde amendment. The insurance companies will already have to have something in place to show that no government money went toward funding abortions.
On a related note, your tax money that does NOT go toward funding abortions probably will go towards subsidizing the children who inevitably are unwanted, whether that be in foster care or through food stamps.
Unclear of if that is something you consider a punishment for paying taxes or not.
December 14th, 2013 at 3:34 pm
Snead, You should actually want to subsidize elective abortions, it’d save you money. It’s cheaper to have an abortion, for society, than a full term pregnancy.
Just think that kid someone didn’t want or couldn’t afford now gets super subsidized: food stamps, state-funded child health care, public schools, and maybe, someday, federal grant money for college. The list goes on.
So you can either subsidize abortion, which is cheaper and safer than pregnancy, or you can shell out more to help raise the kid. If you care about your fiscal future, you should support subsidized abortion. Just saying
December 14th, 2013 at 3:36 pm
Sally, At that point, the kid is already born and is here. It’s not the kid’s fault, so how can I gripe about that too much (as long as most of the money actually goes towards helping the kid.)
I’d rather have some of my tax money going to help impoverished children than many of the other places it goes.
December 14th, 2013 at 3:55 pm
Josh, Please don’t tell me what I should want.
I don’t want to subsidize anyone’s elective procedure or anyone’s carelessness. As I mentioned before, I don’t have any issue subsidizing it in the cases of rape, incest, or birth defects, though I would prefer if your private insurance would cover it. If it’s elective, pay for the damn thing yourself or get insurance that covers it.
I’m sorry that it’s so hard for people to NOT have kids or that it’s so inconvenient to have them, but FFS, take some personal responsibility for things. I know a lot of people who made it well into adulthood without having kids and then chose to have them when they decided that it was right for them.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:02 pm
I hate the argument of “I don’t want to have to pay for YOUR ____!” That’s basically the whole point of insurance, other people paying for other people’s shit, and hoping that one day if you need shit too those other people will pay for it in turn.
If I’m paying premiums for years its going towards other people’s diabetes medications, heart disease treatments, chemotherapy, everything, even though I’ve never had diabetes or heart disease or cancer, and then those people want to turn around and say it is ridiculous for me to expect their premiums to go towards maternity care or birth control because they don’t need those services? The people who say these things know NOTHING about insurance.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:03 pm
Snead, Yes! I am one of the people who made it well into adulthood without having kids! I did that via mostly birth control, probably some dumb luck, and one abortion when that all failed. Now, because of the beauty of modern medicine, I do get to choose to have kids if/when it is right for me.
I also have several degrees and a steady job, so please don’t fucking call me careless. In fact, it was my “personal responsibility” that you are so fond of that led to the easy decision for me to get an abortion in the first place.
But thank god I had insurance at the time. So your tax dollars didn’t have to subsidize my elective procedure. Because my tax dollars have never, in history, been used to subsidize anything elective, for anyone. That’s not what taxes or insurance are for.
For the record, I don’t care if my taxes get used to fund nothing but abortions.
Also for the record, I think you’re an asshole, and you should choose your words more carefully and think about the implications of your opinions.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:05 pm
Here’s the thing, Snead. Following your logic, what’s the difference between these two statements:
“If someone else is too careless to not have unprotected sex and not become pregnant, then I shouldn’t have to pay for their medical treatment.”
“If someone else is too careless to not smoke and not get lung cancer, then I shouldn’t have to pay for their medical treatment.”
The very nature of insurance is that we pay premiums that cover other people’s treatment, so that someday their premiums can cover our own. You don’t get to decide which treatments are worthy of your dollars and which procedures aren’t, simply based on whether they’re due to “carelessness” rather than genetic history, bad luck or ability to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Your “careless unprotected sex-haver” is another person’s “careless smoker/suntanner/redmeat eater/driver/snowboarder/hot stove user/pedestrian” and the list goes on and on.
And please don’t argue that abortions aren’t medically necessary when they’re elective. Even if we’re going with the assumption that they’re not medically necessary (which is a broader issue we don’t get into), they’re no more medically necessary than Viagra, plenty of orthopedic sports medicine procedures, reconstructive plastic surgery after disfiguring accidents, or any other medical treatment we opt into that does something other than save our lives or explicitly prolong them.
Your argument is fundamentally about viewing this particular procedure differently than all others, due to your own opinions about the worthiness of those people who you believe tend to get them—female, stupid, slutty, poor, whatever you picture when you think of “those people who get elective abortions” in your mind.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:06 pm
Melanie, Why did you react that way. I didn’t call you careless (or an asshole, for that matter). Why so defensive?
I don’t care if someone has 20 abortions. I do care if I get hit in the wallet for someone’s 20 abortions. How does that make me an asshole?
December 14th, 2013 at 4:13 pm
Snead, You seem not to have a terribly nuanced understanding of how the whole sex and babymaking thing goes. Nor do you seem to understand that people’s circumstances change, sometimes quickly.
I think we can add “lacks understanding of the effects of growing up in poverty with overstressed single mother” to the pile. I know, you’re loving this whole bootstrappy yer-captain-of-yer-goddamn-life kick, and you really believe in it, and all.
You’re what, 29? 35? Don’t worry, life will beat more sense into you. In the meantime, trust responsible women who’re telling you that you actually are not doing a good job of distinguishing rear end from elbow in this whole abortion-responsibility conversation, and that you don’t have much understanding of how these things go. And that in fact you want abortion to be as widely and easily available as possible.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:16 pm
Yes Buffy, but smokers pay higher premiums. There’s also no way to prove that smoking caused a particular cancer. I think that we can all agree that we know what causes babies.
Additionally, I don’t view that particular procedure as different from ALL others. If someone wants Viagra, they should pay for that, too.
Hey, I’m not labeling anyone slutty, stupid, unworthy, or anything else. I’m just saying that, if you make certain life decisions where there are clear consequences, you should have to get yourself out of it without expecting those around you to dig into their wallets to do so.
I think that there should be some programs available to help people who cannot do that themselves. Despite what you may think of me, I’m not totally heartless. I’m also not a socialist.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:20 pm
Snead, The Hyde amendment already ensures that tax dollars don’t go towards funding abortions. Please take the time to read up on it, as it should answer some of your concerns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Amen…
This bill isn’t about your tax dollars. It never was. The Hyde amendment already covered any health care services that were being paid for by the federal government (i.e. your tax dollars). This bill is about what kind of insurance can be provided by privately-owned insurance companies and made available for people to buy with their normal (i.e. not-your-tax) dollars.
The bill says that a woman with three insurance plans to choose from who wants to make sure she can get an abortion must now choose the insurance company that offers a special abortion rider at an additional cost.
The bill does not obligate insurance companies in Michigan to offer such a rider on the healthcare exchange, so if our hypothetical woman can’t find an insurer who will cover her, then she can’t pay for that insurance, so your righteous indignation that it’s her responsibility to pay for it doesn’t really work here.
Do you think the GOP is going out of its way to make sure she can make that choice? They’re not. This bill is, pure and simple, a way to make it more difficult for women to get abortions
December 14th, 2013 at 4:21 pm
Snead, It’s not that it’s ‘inconvenient’, it’s that it’s ‘literally taking money out of my nonexistent wallet’ to have a kid. A child costs you upwards of $400,000, and when you cannot get by on your own, it’s not possible to have a kid.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:23 pm
Samantha, You’re cute. I’m in my 40′s, if you must know. If I’m not the captain of my life, then who is? I have to take personal responsibility for my actions. I’m quite aware of how the baby-making thing goes, and I’ve “kept it in my pants” on some occasions because of it.
You have no idea how much or how little “life beating” I (or anyone else) have taken. And I don’t mind having abortion widely and easily available – just pay for it yourself.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
Snead, Not all abortions are because of carelessness, but you don’t really care about that. You just want to feel superior and the only way you can do that is by imagining all these horrible sluts dipping into your bank accounts to fund their abortions. Your comment says more about you than it does about anything else.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:28 pm
Lana, Right, but if I’m struggling to work and pay my ever increasing insurance premiums and make ends meet too, why should I have to help pay for that? I have a non-existent wallet, too, and that’s why I don’t have any kids. I would love it if the premiums didn’t keep increasing.
If the woman gets pregnant, there’s always the option for me to just pay for the abortion. I’m not saying that I would or wouldn’t, but there is that option. I don’t think that you should have to help me pay. How would that be fair?
December 14th, 2013 at 4:30 pm
Insurance covering abortion is MUCH less expensive than covering a pregnancy. Prenatal care costs more. Giving birth costs a TON! Some women literally cannot afford to use drugs in their birth because of the cost.
My mom’s insurance has found that it is more cost effective for them to cover one abortion per year than any birth control. So saying that you don’t want to pay for someone’s abortion with your insurance premiums because they keep going up makes zero sense financially.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:33 pm
Wallis#76, Fair enough, but it’s not only about tax dollars. It’s insurance premiums, too.
I don’t have any issue with women having access to abortions. I also don’t have any issue with women/families being able to add that to their insurance. I don’t see anything wrong with being able to choose your coverage and add things like this to it. You can already do that with your car insurance. You just pay more for better coverage.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:44 pm
Don’t you see Snead is just fucking with you. He is against it because he is against a woman having an abortion. He is making the kind of argument that republicans make all the time when they are called on an issue and you show how their logic for supporting that issue is flawed.
Snead started out arguing that he doesn’t want to pay for someone else’s abortion. Many of you have pointed the flaw in that logic in several ways. All of them add up to:1. he isn’t paying for that particular procedure because the way insurance works is that the collective whole pays for the individual; 2. if he were paying, it would be cheaper to pay for an abortion that for the childbirth process, and 3. an abortion is cheaper than to have to pay for an unwanted child and one the family cannot afford to feed and clothe because the state will have to step in and provide assistance for perhaps 18 years per child.
The principle that makes insurance financially profitable is that there will always be more money paid in than the insurance company has to pay out. No one gets to choose what procedure he or she is paying for for another. They just are assured that when their time comes others will have paid enough into the pot to insure their illness gets taken care of.
Snead has to ignore those truths to continue with his fallacious arguments. He’s just fucking with ya.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:48 pm
Christina#79, Please tell me more of your ignorant opinions about myself, my irrational friend. As I mentioned previously, I don’t mind subsidizing it in the cases of rape, incest, or birth defects.
I don’t want to restrict anyone’s access to it. It has nothing to do with superiority. Do whatever the hell you want with your body, but when it starts infringing on my life and financial future – then I’m entitled to voice my objection to it. I don’t care what someone does, as long as they clean up their own mess. The same is expected of me.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:51 pm
I guess where we come down is a difference in how we view something like “abortion insurance.” From your previous comments, it seemed to me like your take is that this is a luxury some women should have to pay because they want to be able to abort with impunity – that they’re not taking other precautions, so they should accept the consequences of the risky game they’re playing.
I don’t think an abortion is a luxury. According to Guttmacher, 18% of people having abortions are teenagers; so the first question right off the bat is whether parents are going to buy abortion insurance for their teenaged daughters. That’s a doozy and I’m not going to go into it, but you can see the problems there.
42% of women having abortions are below the poverty level and an additional 27% are skating by on extremely low incomes. To them, an abortion isn’t a luxury; as the original commenter posted, if they’re that poor, they’re not going to spring for optional abortion insurance. 54% of women who get abortions were using some other method of contraception when they became pregnant.
Working from those facts, the only conclusion I can reach is that if abortion insurance is elective, the majority of people who sign up for it will be the people who could afford to pay for an out-of-pocket abortion if they needed it, while the majority of people who won’t sign up for it will be the people who can’t afford the extra monthly costs and will then find themselves unable to afford an abortion if they do need it.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:52 pm
Snead, You think your tax dollars are paying for abortions. Who’s irrational?
What’s the difference between a pregnancy from rape or incest or an accidental pregnancy?
Your reaction to them and the way you perceive the women in question. That is the only difference.
It has everything to do with superiority.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:54 pm
That’s for busting the creep, LeTaO. I done with him.
December 14th, 2013 at 4:58 pm
Wait, Snead#78, you went all the way to the extent of “keeping it in your pants on some occasions”? Boy howdy, you have steered your fate. Perhaps you’re not aware of this phenomenon wherein women are poor. And, for various reasons — many of them under age 12 — they’re not so free to go make a pile of money and support themselves and their kids.
What many of them do: Find boyfriends. Often not the greatest boyfriend, but the best that’ll have ‘em. And these boyfriends do make things easier in certain ways. Suddenly they have housing. This is a plus, when you’ve got children. On the other hand, boyfriends often expect sex. So get on the pill, he says. That’s nice.
You know what you need for the pill? A prescription, which means a doctor’s visit and possibly the cost of the pills, which often isn’t in the cards. Remarkably few places have Planned Parenthoods handing out free prescriptions and pills anymore. So the woman risks it, because really, what the fuck else can she do. Not a hell of a lot. Or she does get the pill, and she gets knocked up anyway.
Does the boyfriend really want a baby? No. Will he pay for an abortion? No. Does he split and leave her with no money and two kids? Hell yes. And yes, you want that woman to be able to go get an abortion, even if you’re going to contribute a few pennies towards it (which you won’t anyway, under the law).
I’m so delighted that you’ve been able to steer your life the way you have. Don’t let that blind you to the fact that many people, if not most, have lives influenced profoundly by misfortunes, discrimination, and choices other people made for them. And yes, sometimes people are powerless.
I guess you could wait till it happens to you — it will, you’ll find yourself powerless and in a bad spot that matters, however much that notion might frighten you — but if that’s what you’re going to do, give some thought now to how you’re going to make good with all the people you’ve slammed along the way with this stunning absence of compassion.
December 14th, 2013 at 5:03 pm
Snead, Planning is indispensable, plans are useless.
No matter how responsible you try to be, shit happens. I used to think just like you, I was close to being an MRA. Frankly it’s nobodies business why a woman has an abortion. Not yours, not mine. And just so you know most women that have abortions are married and already have kids.
I don’t know how much experience you have with poverty, but when you live in poverty you don’t have many options. Also poverty alters your brain chemistry, it forces you to be a different person. Hopelessness and fear do not really lend to stable mental states and desire for planning.
Then there is the abstinence only problem. Imagine you live in a poor, rural area that teaches abstinence only. These areas have higher teen pregnancy rates and sexually-transmitted infections.
Your attitude punishes the many people that have been denied access to proper sex-ed, as well as understanding of their hormonal changes. Also the human brain doesn’t fully develop until someone is over 25. The part of the brain that takes so long to develop is the pre-frontal cortex, which is responsible for logic and emotional control.
Like I said before, it’s cheaper to subsidize abortion than raise a child to being 18. And since you want to further disenfranchise the poor, it will only lead to more poverty and more unplanned children. Which in turn will make taxes go up, just to cover the influx of people and children needing help to survive.
I just hope you’re never make mistake and need help for it. Ever. Because you obviously are the paragon of personal responsibility.
December 14th, 2013 at 5:44 pm
I know this is crazy, but I have to say it. Zen Lill I have been reading your accusations against Michelle and your denials to those trying to bring sense to that stubborn egotistical head of yours. Here’s my two cents worth.
1. “Anna of Guam, nice try but no I’m myself. Michelle and Anonz didnt find it at all important to check in with me to see if I wanted to be part of their bullshit story.” CLUE #1 – They didn’t bother to check with you because THERE WAS NO BULLSHIT STORY, it was a suggestion by other people who posted it and you took it and ran with it.
2. “So they are both LSOS’s and as far as calling out everyone else for lying try looking in the mirror. I may have gone along with it if MM or Anonz or one of his handlers esp a female one had fucking ASKED.” CLUE #2 – They didn’t bother to ASK because there was nothing to ask because THERE WAS NO BULLSHIT STORY, it was a suggestion by other people who posted it and you took it and ran with it.
3. “But no, no one bothered to check in with me. So the reason we won’t be seen side by side is bc I don’t want a friend who would do that. Period.” CLUE #3 – No one bother to check with you because THERE WAS NO BULLSHIT STORY, it was a suggestion by other people who posted it and you took it and ran with it.
4. ” If telling the truth is so important than(sec, the correct word to use here is then. {if, then}) do it. (And this is from a woman who is for other women) Keep up the good work of calling out atrocities around the globe, that’s important, but your own backyard could use work.” CLUE #4 – If telling the truth is so important, THEN you should start by admitting you made a mistake because THERE WAS NO BULLSHIT STORY, it was a suggestion by other people who posted it and you took it and ran with it.
5. “MikeTM, ah you do have one point, the rest is man shit disguised as a point.” Clue #5 – That point was, THERE WAS NO BULLSHIT STORY, it was a suggestion by other people who posted it and you took it and ran with it.
The “rest” that you called “man shit disguised as a point.” was Mike,TM making nice and explaining to you why logically THERE WAS NO BULLSHIT STORY, it was a suggestion by other people who posted it and you took it and ran with it.
6. “….what I took issue w is in between the lines and Anonz and Michelle know exactly what I meant.” CLUE #6 – There was no between the lines because THERE WAS NO BULLSHIT STORY, it was a suggestion by other people who posted it and you took it and ran with it.
7.” An apology from them is in order not the other way around but thanks fr voicing your inaccurate position.” CLUE #7 – Mike,TM’s position was as accurate and polite as he could make it for you to understand because THERE WAS NO BULLSHIT STORY, it was a suggestion by other people who posted it and you took it and ran with it.
And finally an apology is DEFINITELY in order here, but it is you who owe those two an apology, because THERE WAS NO BULLSHIT STORY, it was a suggestion by other people who posted it and you took it and ran with it.
Now as for your claim that Anonz and Michelle had sex, I have no way of knowing that to be true, but I have a quote from you that should settle that issue. “It isn’t about the fact of sex or a liason, that’s a given that he sleeps with whoever he pleases, that pretty obvious that he has creamy panties anytime he wants them, and again, bc I am more or less of a polyamorist why would I GAF?!?”
Then, if as you say it isn’t about the sex it must be about them using you to get to the sex via the blog. But we know that isn’t true because THERE WAS NO BULLSHIT STORY, it was a suggestion by other people who posted it and you took it and ran with it.
They are both adults so if they wanted to have sex, they didn’t need your permission. You were in an admitted committed affair with someone else for going on 5 years now. There are NO between the lines here only you behaving badly because you accepted a bullshit story by other people who posted it as a supposition to discussing whether you were a product of Michelle and Doug’s imagination.
I know you are a blond, but do you think you can wrap your head around the fact that THERE WAS NO BULLSHIT STORY, it was a suggestion by other people who posted it and you took it and ran with it.
December 14th, 2013 at 7:34 pm
Now that’s the way to end a soap, eh Social Butterfly?
December 14th, 2013 at 7:41 pm
Oh how I miss the summer breeze
Sitting under a big oak tree
Watching the butterflies
So beautiful and free
I wish to God it were me
I wish to god I were home
I wish to God I wasn’t alone
I wish Happy Seasons
Weren’t closed in four walls
I wish I culd have a Christmas
Not locked in a corridor
I look out the window
Watching and staring
As long days go by
Why God why?